TargetTalk

A parent is looking for an air rifle for his son to practice with. I'm thinking of recommending an Air Arms T200 but have a question about filling the tank. I already have a scuba tank with this yoke; http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... &item=Y200 which I use with this adapter; http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... tem=001521 to fill my 8001.

The T200 is shipped with a DIN adapter, but I'm not sure if it fits the yoke I have. So far Pyramyd Air has not responded to my messages. I'm on the west coast and need to call in the mornings while I'm at work; if I remember to do so. :)

Does anyone know if the supplied adapter fits the yoke I have? Thanks.

Ranb

The adapter furnished with the T200 should thread directly into your DIN yoke.

I ordered the air rifle from Pyramyd. Right after it was shipped, I saw that Champions Choice had a another CZ 200 with an adjustable stock. I know a guy who can modify the stock to fit the boy who is going to use it though. The fill adapter fits on my scuba tank yoke just fine.

I was unable to check the speed of the pellets (Diabolo 7.0 grain, .450 mm) with my chronograph as it was too overcast and I need good light for it to see the small pellets. The rear sight is not one I like though as its adjustments are not fine enough; it seems to adjust about one millimeter per click at 10 meters. The trigger is rather heavy and creepy compared to the 8001, but that is to be expected for a rifle that is less than a third the cost of the less expensive precision air rifles.



The top target group is .193" center to center, the lower target is .108"; both are ten rounds each. With a perfect zero I could shoot a 100/100 on the AR-5/10 target, but I'm not likely to do so with this rifle. It will be useful for kids to train with as it is only 6.5 pounds and will fit the smaller shooters after I cut down the stock a bit to reduce the LOP from 13.5" to about 11" or so.

Some more testing today; but not under the proper conditions. My tank pressure was about 70 bar and I didn't have a means to fill it as my scuba tank was loaned out to a shooting team member.

I mounted a scope to the rifle and was not able to significantly improve the groups I shot before. It was bright enough for the chronograph and I learned that 50-60 bar is definitely too low to shoot with. I should have know better as my 8001 manometer is marked in green at 70-200 bar with under 70 in yellow; fill prior to getting that low.

With RWS 8.2 grain pellets I got 418 fps with a stdev of 13 fps; very poor for an air rifle. The velocities went from 446 fps down to 403 fps in 2-16 fps increments. Hopefully this is just a symptom of low air pressure and not what I should expect at normal pressures from 110 to 190 bar. The 7.0 grain Diabolo pellets at 50 bar did even worse at 405 fps with a stdev of 8 fps.

I will be able to fill the tank tomorrow and can determine what pressures I need to maintain the tank at.

Randy

Even with a T200, your groups should be MUCH better with the correct pellets, but just as with a precision rifle, you have to lot test to get the ones the rifle likes.

I would not even continue with those 7 grain pellets ... those are for the older rifles (such as a 753/853) or SS pistols.

With our sporter rifles (XSV-40s, T200s, 888s & 887s) each is individualistic. I can go from a 7 ring group (as you display) or a ragged one hole group just with pellet lot differences. Just because a tin is $12-15-19 does not mean it will shoot well in your rifle.

Many of the distributors can send you sample packs of different lots and you can test them.

I can shoot a 100 on the AR-5/10 target with the cheap 7.0 grain Diabolos in my 8001. I'll try other pellets for the CZ.

Randy

The ten year old girl using the CZ 200T is able to handle the air rifle prone and is getting ready for a prone match. The 6.6 pound weight is manageable for her, but the length of pull at 13.8 inches is too much, especially if she tries to hold it offhand.

I cut down the stock to a length of pull of 12 inches and added an Anschutz adjustable butt pad.



I forgot to accuracy test it with various weights/sizes of R-10 and Miesterkugeln pellets prior to returning it.

I should mention that this air rifle is not a youth rifle at all despite the low weight of under 7 pounds. Not only is the length of pull rather long for a kid, the length from the front of the trigger to the back of the pistol grip area is 3.5 inches, similar to a Remington 700. It fits me just fine, but I wear large to XL gloves.

Ranb
That is a common problem with many manufacturers.
They think that just dropping the power makes it a "junior" rifle.
They forget that many juniors are smaller than adults.

Heck some adults (like me) are not TALL.
My AR coach adjusted my P70-jr to the min LoP of 11-3/4 inches. And he said if he could have, he would have made it shorter.
I shoot my x53 rifles with only the butt plate (no spacers), for a 12 inch LoP.

Then again, there are juniors taller than me, that can use a full size rifle.

I finally got the air rifle away from the young lady borrowing it long enough to test it some more.

First was a cleaning; not sure if she was cleaning it after each tin of pellets. I think not based on the condition of the first patch I pulled through.


I'm thinking possible rough bore compared to an Anschutz or FWB, or maybe the cheaper Diabolo pellets leave more residue behind. It has only had Diabolo through it except for today's testing.



Diabolos will be good enough for practice especially as the girl using it is only shooting 85-92. Scores of 95-100 are expected once she improves.



The Meisterkugeln 4.50 mm 7.0 grain had a slight edge on the R-10 7.0 grain pellets. The R-10 and Meisterkugeln 8.2 grain pellets were worse than any 7.0 grain other than the Diabolos.

I bought the 200T that was advertised for sale on the forum. It is the short stock version from Champion's Choice. Even though it weighs less than seven pounds it is a full sized adult air rifle and not entirely suitable for 3P training for juniors, especially the younger ones. But simply chopping down the single piece stock 200T I bought from Pyramid Arms makes it suitable for smaller shooters who find the Anschutz 8001 and FWB300S mini to large for them to handle.

I going to modify this one for my eight year old granddaughter. She will of course start prone from a rest and maybe even a scope to learn aiming/trigger control. If she progresses then I'll put the peep sights back on and put her in a jacket and sling. If she isn't interested in shooting then it will end up in the KRRC smallbore safe for other kids to use.

The major ergonomic difference between the Champion's Choice model and the one I bought from Pyramid Air is that the hand stop rail extends back to within 1-1/4 inches forward of the trigger guard; much closer than the rails mounted on the single piece stock rifles. This will allow a young shooter with short arms to hold the rifle up a bit higher without extending the left arm out so far. This more significant than the adjustable cheek piece and LOP. Of course it is not hard to do a bit of woodworking to set the rail back on the single piece stock models either.

The biggest problem with the 200T is the adult sized pistol grip area. A person needs a reach of at least four inches with their trigger finger to touch the trigger properly. Even my AR-10 and LAR 50 BMG have a more comfortable grip for smaller hands than the 200T.

Here is a photo of my wife holding the 200T with her very small hands.

Notice how she has to adjust her grip to get her finger on the trigger properly.

I plan on cutting back the rear of the stock and attaching a flat rubber butt plate. I'll drill out holes for the adjustable butt plate hardware so that LOP can be increased later on.

I'll cut away at the back of the pistol grip area to allow short fingers to reach the trigger easier. The black line shows where the hole for one of the action fasteners goes through the wood stock. Cutting into the stock will compromise its strength so I'll shape a piece of wood and glue it behind the trigger guard. The white lines show where I will cut the stock.

The rear sight will rest too far back with the shorter length of pull so I'll cut it down a bit so it can move forward about 1/2 inch without covering the loading port.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Not authorised to see the photos.
You could get a short sight like the Gehmann Compact for more eye relief.
I would leave the pistol grip as-is. No need to have the thumb wrapped round like a pistol. Til the photos are viewable cant comment more.

TenMetrePeter wrote:Not authorised to see the photos.
You could get a short sight like the Gehmann Compact for more eye relief.

A sight like this one? https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product ... ccessories

I thought I linked the photos correctly; even tested the links after signing off of Google. Too bad Photobucket doesn't allow sharing photos for free now.

I updated the links with what I think will work, but since I'm at work and can't access the new links, I won't know for sure until someone clicks on them or I get home to check myself.

Yes that one. Quite short.
The photos now display OK.

That trigger reach is also a problem on some of the junior/sportster rifles (Daisy x53, Crossman Challenger).
Except for the Daisy, I don't get why they put the pistol grip back away from the trigger like they do.
- The Daisy unfortunately has the screw that secures the stock to the receiver right behind the trigger guard. I think that is why the x53 pistol grip is set back. That screw is a legacy from the straight 853 stock that does not have a vertical pistol grip.

I cut down the stock to 11.5 inches. The butt plate is a slimmer one I took off of my other 200T which had an Anschutz adjustable plate installed. The pistol grip area is cut away a bit to make the trigger easier to reach with smaller hands.



ETA; Updated link to photo.

Ranb wrote:I cut down the stock to 11.5 inches. The butt plate is a slimmer one I took off of my other 200T which had an Anschutz adjustable plate installed. The pistol grip area is cut away a bit to make the trigger easier to reach with smaller hands.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/icDwryXW0gOrcRlL2

Great job. I withdraw my advice about the grip as you obviously have the skills!

I have a miter saw, a rasp and some 100 grit sandpaper. :) I might still take a bit more from the pistol grip area based on feedback from the shooter I cut it down for. After I'm done whittling on it I'll properly sand and stain so the area blends in better.

It does shoot well enough. I put 5 pellets into a hole a bit over 5mm wide. After sighting in I shot a 96/100. Good enough for entry level youngsters.

Here is the 200T with the one piece stock I bought earlier this year. I took a bit more wood off this one. Still need to sand and stain it.

This is a cheap Tasco 2.5x10 power scope with an adjustable objective I use for pellet testing. With rim fire rings it mounts well to the grooved receiver.

I would be afraid of making the pistol grip too small, and reducing its strength.
Full size rifle have enough problem with cracking at the pistol grip.
Maybe drill a hole through the grip and cement in a 1/4 inch diameter steel rod.