TargetTalk

So I flew from Aruba all the way to Canada to compete in the canadian Grand Prix competition that was held on electronic targets in the new Panam range the past weekend. It is a two day competition and after the second day the top eight shooters will shoot the final. After the first day I was in fourth place with a score of 563 after the second day I shot 567 and was in first place with a total score of 1130. Prior to the first day I did weapon inspection and passed the inspection. After the second competition day I was randomly selected for trigger weight test and failed so I was disqualified. As soon as I got of the line I went to test the trigger again and again it passed fine, I even let another jury member test it and it was fine when he tested it also. The gun is a brand new gun that I bought on March 11th. It's a morini 162EI Titanium version. Before I flew out to Canada I also tested it at home worked fine when I got back I tested it again and also passing the trigger weight fine. Does anybody have any idea why this could of occurred and also how to prevent this from happening again?

I am really sorry for you. To travel that distance and then not have you count in the end. But, these pistols are not weapons. As for the trigger, I have no idea what happened, but I would have insisted that the control folks check it again in a few minutes. That should not happen to anyone. Good luck, Don in Oregon

different temperature, humidity etc have an effect on trigger parts and increase/reduce friction and spring properties. Some people use 550g, and win Championship, Olympics and set new records with 50g over the needed.

Shooter wrote:As for the trigger, I have no idea what happened, but I would have insisted that the control folks check it again in a few minutes.

If EC was ostensibly under ISSF rules then you have no right to insist on a re-check.

The only right of appeal is if you think that the check was not done correctly.

I've seen this before with different makes of AP. I don't know whether it's different atmospherics, or the trigger having "warmed up" during the match, but has always been with triggers set close to the limit. Give it an extra 20-30 grammes. You won't feel the difference and you'll have the confidence to not worry about a post-competition check.

You're screwed! Learn to love it!

If it's any consolation, I saw the same thing happen to John Zurek in Europe.

(Added) He thought it was because they didn't like Americans.

hundert wrote:different temperature, humidity etc have an effect on trigger parts and increase/reduce friction and spring propreties. Some people use 550g, and win Championship, Olympics and set new records with 50g over the needed.

I got the 500 go trigger weight, how will I be able to check it at 550 grams? I was thinking of placing 50gr of wieight on the trigger weight but not sure if I place it on one side of the weight if it will work optimal

we normally use custom made weights, old clothes hanger that's made of metal, and three cans filled with used pellets. You can remove one can, set up first stage, 2nd separately.

>>>> Not my picture, google helped me

I have the same thing made as well as others on this forum but I can't find the picture.

Or you can just add some pellets to your own weight. If you know your pellets weight 0.50, add like 40 of them (for 20g extra) and you're good. It's a good training to shoot with a 1000g trigger, as recommended by that Russian guy who trained many world record holders, Olympic champions etc. It should have very little effect on your score, so don't be afraid of extra 30g^^

Many athletes have been disqualified because of similar reasons. Shooting 560s in competition is very good!

philipelhage wrote:

hundert wrote:different temperature, humidity etc have an effect on trigger parts and increase/reduce friction and spring propreties. Some people use 550g, and win Championship, Olympics and set new records with 50g over the needed.

I got the 500 go trigger weight, how will I be able to check it at 550 grams? I was thinking of placing 50gr of wieight on the trigger weight but not sure if I place it on one side of the weight if it will work optimal

Weigh 50g of coins and place them around the top of the weight.

You could even use a single additional weight placed as centrally as possible. It won't be that critical.

To add extra weight central to a trigger testing weight get some washers that have a hole just bigger than the diameter of the bar and slide them down to the bottom. This way you can accurately get the extra weight you want and they won't fall off.

i believe i walked right behind you when you got DQ'd at the equipment check table...

when my daughter and i were going through EC, we were behind 6-7 other shooters who all had some issue with their jackets. another junior's dad said he hadnt seen ANYONE pass tech in the 40 minutes he had been there before i got in line...

another junior got pulled off the line both days to be re-checked on her jacket. kind of disconcerting for an SJ rifle shooter at her first "big" competition. not saying she should have been given a 'free-pass' but there were enough shooters that one of the others could have gotten a 2nd look...

so, after hijacking your thread, so sorry you got DQ'd. not sure what you can do but set your trigger a bit heavier...

First of all, that sucks.

David is right. You best (only avenue) is is that any time it fails you can insist that it was done incorrectly.

You can keep standing there and tell them that they have done it incorrectly. Keep doing this until it passes, or you get dragged away. It happens that some people are just awful at testing triggers.

At the NZ Nationals this year my gun failed after an incorrect test after finishing my 10m quals. Dug my heels in.

First, that is really unfortunate.

One other source of calibrate test weights is coins. For example, new US nickels are exactly 5 grams.

The alternative is to invest in a trigger gauge, rather than a go/no-go weight. The Lyman one is relatively inexpensive, and works very well:

http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Electronic- ... B00162QGLS

Hi Philipe. I shot two positions to your left and was there watching the random trigger inspection. While I agree with others that a trigger set too fine is a DQ waiting to happen, I feel that you were not given a fair shake. During equipment check a different person examined your gun, on a different table and his elbows were placed on the table. Your gun was checked on the line by a juror who placed his forearms against the edge of the table. I believe that it was not possible for him to apply as slow a technique as the original inspector. That worked against you. Unfortunately you got your three tries and you were out. With all the fancy equipment available for checking rifle gear you would think that something mechanical would be used for pistol triggers. One day I suspect there will be some sort of device.

That said, you left yourself open to human variation by cutting it too close. Add some weight to your trigger and never worry about it again. (And I hope to see you again next year, in the Finals!)

I use coins added to the trigger weights.
Australian coins 20c (11.5g), 50c (15.5g).
So 20c, 50c and 70c test, that is Airpistol + 11.5g (20cents),
Centrefire/rapid + 15.5g (50cents) and Service +27g (70cents).
It adds enough of a margin to allow for daily changes, temp etc.

Another trick to up your 500 weight is to use self sticking tire weights (without actually sticking them). 540gr for AP i feel is a good target that will withstand temperatures and sloppy EC. All my air pistols (izh-46, mg-1e, 162e,) and my wife's LP10 lift the weight easily this way anyday.

ive had this problem as well, (not as bad as your though!) it seems the angle of the weight on the trigger is a source of difference. my gun is also new and its pull weight changed as well. after reading this I just made my trigger heaver!

if i remember correctly in the issf rules the barrel of the pistol must be vertical while checking the trigger weight. i have seen many times a trigger to pass when you angle the barrel so the trigger blade is more horizontal (and perpendicular to the weight) and not pass when the barrel is vertical.

hundert wrote:different temperature, humidity etc have an effect on trigger parts and increase/reduce friction and spring properties. Some people use 550g, and win Championship, Olympics and set new records with 50g over the needed.

A good piece of advice.
500 grams is the minimum trigger release weight. So, why adjust trigger that dangerously close to the minimum release weight? Better, adjust trigger release force to 550g or even 575g to stay clear of any problems Those extra grams are probably not detrimental to your scores. The consern of not passing a random trigger weight check if more so, I think. My trigger? 600 grams. No problems, ever.

You definitely want to check that the "margin" you put in is still there occasionally. Sear surfaces wear smoother & springs can get weaker, both of which can significantly reduce the trigger weight over time.

One reason I like using a gauge that measures the force is I can track things like that. A go/no-go weight is fine for testing at a match, but it won't tell you things like how consistent your trigger weight is. With the Lyman, it will actually tell you the average for multiple weighings & you can easily observe the variation. If your trigger weight varies a lot, it probably means it needs cleaning and/or lubrication.

The downside of the Lyman is that the rod comes with a roller that is a bit hard to keep in a trigger notch. I keep meaning to make a wedge for mine, but haven't gotten around to it. Unlike a weight set, matching the weight of the wedge to the roller isn't an issue. It gets zeroed out.

Thanks for all the replies. I already set my trigger weight to 530 grams and no big difference in my score. I also added a empty tin to the trigger weight so I can test in the future. Shootin my next competition in Puerto Rico end of May and hoping all goes well.