TargetTalk

My Steyr LP1-P was (and still is) tuned to shoot 606fps (185mps) on CO2. Are these speeds doable (or faster) with the LP10, or LP2 on compressed air?

I am a firm believer that faster speed decreases the length of time the pellet is in the bore and subject to flinching. I would like to learn the maximum I could expect from these PCP pistols (8 grain wadcutter pellets). Thanks.

What's your PB?

DFWdude wrote:My Steyr LP1-P was (and still is) tuned to shoot 606fps (185mps) on CO2. Are these speeds doable (or faster) with the LP10, or LP2 on compressed air?

Steyr has the LP S Silhouette pistol that shoots up to 600 fps. You'd have to check the internals to see if it's similar to the LP10/LP2.

If you wound a LP10 up to 600fps I doubt you will get a match quantity of shots out of a tank ?

Crank that sucker up until it ruffles the hair of your fellow shooters!

Let us know how it goes.

(Take the grip off and turn the large-headed screw that faces you clockwise until it won't go any further.)

john bickar wrote:What's your PB?

I don't understand the question. What does PB mean?

DFWdude wrote:

john bickar wrote:What's your PB?

I don't understand the question. What does PB mean?

More important question: What does peanut butter have to do with air pistol performance?

DFWdude wrote:

john bickar wrote:What's your PB?

I don't understand the question. What does PB mean?

Personal best.

David M wrote:If you wound a LP10 up to 600fps I doubt you will get a match quantity of shots out of a tank ?

Valid point, but I will not be using the pistol for 10m competition (primarily). I will be using it for Field Target competition, where I will need at least 5fpe to knock over the targets at 35 yards. (Normal match is 40 shots.) I'd prefer 6fpe and a flatter trajectory to 35 yards. So if I buy an LP10, I will want to amp it up. I'd like to know what the maximum is.

My Steyr CO2 Match (LP1-P) will shoot all day long in 10m at 605 fps (60 match plus 20 sighters or more on one cylinder). Shot 10m for years on this setting and was fortunate to shoot (at the time) NRA Master class scores with it. But I can't reliably use the same pistol for Field Target, because on CO2, trajectory will change in any OUTDOORS Field Target match, based on ambient temperature. The compressed air Steyrs will minimize that concern.

The LP10 will serve dual use for both Field Target and (occasionally) 10m indoor. So I will not be interested in the Steyr Silhouette pistol.

David Levene wrote:

DFWdude wrote:

john bickar wrote:What's your PB?

I don't understand the question. What does PB mean?

Personal best.

My personal best in 10m was 568/600. At the time (when it was an NRA sanctioned event in the US) I was classified NRA Master Class (average 558+). Presently, I am ranked in the top three in US Field Target Pistol.

I know what I am doing and what I hope to accomplish with my questions.

I think I remember that when I tried that years ago, I never got the LP10 higher than 170-175 m/sec, even though an LP1 would do more than that. I thought at the time that the absorber absorbed some air as well, not only recoil. Never followed up on it, though. AFAIK, the LP2 does not have an absorber... You can put an Air Kit on your LP1, though, and shoot CA with the same gun instead of CO2, costs less anyway (Air Kits go for about 180 Euros herearound).

A close friend had his lp10 at 175m/s from factory. Regulator still puts 175 after all this years and he is quite happy with it. In fact he doesnot like all other lp10 with lower velocities

You might be able to get about 600fpm from the LP10, however there will be considerable muzzle flip and the accuracy and size of the group will probably be rather inconsistent as the barrel harmonics will not be working in your favour.
The optimum speed for accuracy at 10 metres is in the 525 -530 fps range.
A lighter pellet might help to increase the muzzle velocity slightly, but this could get blown of its course easier.

DFWDude, what is the temperature range for the pistol Field Target range

that you're shooting? The LP1-C is very tolerant of temperature changes.

I've trained on my backyard 10M range with the temperature as low as 52 degrees,

and high as 102 degrees. Those temperatures are my comfort shooting limits;

the POI was less than 1/2 the inner ten, between the temperature extremes.

The FT cutout at 35 yrds is big enough to not be detrimental for your LP1-C's

accuracy. are you sure you need 5lbs of energy to trip the paddle at 35yds?

If so, it sounds like the targets are set up for air rifle shooting, not air pistol energy.

Good luck;

Tony

paw080 wrote:DFWDude, what is the temperature range for the pistol Field Target range
that you're shooting? The LP1-C is very tolerant of temperature changes.
I've trained on my backyard 10M range with the temperature as low as 52 degrees,
and high as 102 degrees. Those temperatures are my comfort shooting limits;
the POI was less than 1/2 the inner ten, between the temperature extremes.
The FT cutout at 35 yrds is big enough to not be detrimental for your LP1-C's
accuracy. are you sure you need 5lbs of energy to trip the paddle at 35yds?
If so, it sounds like the targets are set up for air rifle shooting, not air pistol energy.
Good luck;
Tony

Good comments and thoughts, Tony. Airgun Field Target (both rifle and pistol) requires targets that will fall with 4lbs of energy on the paddle, and resist falling at 20lbs on the faceplate, all when calibrated at point blank range. 4fpe is the standard, so that 12fpe rifles can still trip the paddle when they lose half their energy at 55yds (the limit for the rifle game). My Steyr LP1-P (CO2) will shoot 7.4fpe at the muzzle, but only 5fpe at 35 yds (the limit for pistol field target).

The 5fpe I need to achieve (at 35yards) creates an adequate margin, IF the targets are properly tuned to function at 4fpe. But to achieve this level of target tuning takes a lot of effort, which varies with the dedication to detail by the Match Director tuning the targets, if he tunes the targets at all. In short, not all targets are set to fall at 4fpe, or even 5fpe.

Add to this the understanding that these performance levels are based on a 72°F ambient outside temp. There was a rifle match this past weekend that started in the morning at barely 30° ambient, and the pistol match to follow was cancelled because the temps would not rise above 50°. FT is shot year round, in all kinds of weather. So a PCP pistol more forgiving of temperature shifts is the best choice for the FT game.

Yes, I've found that my LP1-P is very temperature tolerant. But using a pistol intended for 10m use to shoot targets with retained energy at 35 yds at lower velocities (due to temperature variances) creates a loopy trajectory. Higher velocities yield flatter trajectories, so that explains the chase for as much velocity as possible, in a PCP pistol better suited for the purpose year-round.

Thanks for your thoughts.

LP10's have been adjusted by professional tuners (i.e., machining) up to 10-12 fp for FT and silhouette. Search the Yellow
Forum.

RFC wrote:LP10's have been adjusted by professional tuners (i.e., machining) up to 10-12 fp for FT and silhouette. Search the Yellow
Forum.

Field Target Pistol is popular here in Texas. I've seen and shot several Steyrs given the "AZ" treatment, and they are usually older LP1s, converted from CO2 to PCP with new barrel, scope riser, front fill cylinder, internal milling to enlarge the plenum on the low pressure side of a genuine Steyr regulator, etc. Here's an example...



I haven't seen an LP10 in FT yet, but I will look further...

This is what Steyr said when I asked about velocity potential of LP50 (for shooting silhouette):

Dear Fred,

To change the velocity higher from the LP50 app 170m/is possible. You need regulator adjusted from 70 bar to 95 bar and stronger hammer spring.

Best regards

Ernst

So, I have my LP10 shooting 610 fps (186 mps) with 7.4 grain H&N Finale Match. Is that the tops I can expect?

I have removed the shroud and blocked the three barrel vents with two layers of Duct Tape... no change in performance.

I'm tempted to think the vent hole in the breech that powers the stabilizer weight is the culprit. It sits right above the chamber in the bolt where the air redirects to the barrel, the point of maximum compression, I would think. But I'm resisting temptation to remove the ball bearing and block the hole with a delrin plug.

Again, I don't want to use this pistol for 10m, where it's design is perfect. I will shoot it in 10m competitions at the present, 610 fps tune. However, al want to explore the potential of shooting 8.4 JSB round nose pellets to 680-700 fps for Field Target energy levels (10 fpe, minimum).

If swapping something out for a delrin plug isn't irreversible then why not try it? As I understand the anti-recoil function of the Steyr it is much like that of the Pardini K12, with a portion if the air being redirected backward to drive a tungsten rod opposite to the pellet travel. Plugging that hole would likely increase your velocity at least a bit.

But the initial pressure becomes very important with a shorter barrel. When using regulated pressure, the regulator setpoint must be increased (as Ernst mentioned) so that a higher rate of expansion will take place at the beginning of the shot cycle. With a much longer barrel you could get away with regulator output set for 10m AP power levels, which is an optimized setpoint to provide efficient use of air at that range of velocities. But for 700fps you will need a considerable boost in initial pressure to get the pellet moving more quickly at the start of its journey. Especially so with the heavier pellet for FT. You will need to find out how to increase your regulator setpoint by between 10 and 20 bar to achieve this. Or find a lot longer barrel...

I've tried the limits of my K12 without adjusting the regulator. With the hammer spring dialed in and about 2mm of preload spacing added to the hammer spring I managed 610fps with 7.5gr wadcutters. A regulator adjustment would increase this, but I didn't bother. The anti-recoil function quickly goes away when the balance gets thrown out like that. Works great when shooting at about 530fps and the rearward vent adjusted to match that velocity. Get lots more shots out of it too. I haven't tried it for field target, not formally, but in plinking at FT targets between rifle sessions I've found it's able to knock them down out to 30 metres with ease when adjusted to 575fps with 7.5gr. That's just 5.5fpe, but if properly set the targets fall for a good bullseye hit. But of course if I were interested in serious Pistol FT I'd want more velocity for a much flatter trajectory over a broad range. Probably 800fps would be nice. Loud though.