TargetTalk

I am considering switching my system, and I might lean towards the (expensive) bleikers. I have been told some accessoriers won't fit Bleiker and being a 3P shooter this might greatly increase costs if I have to get new hooks etc... plus one gets used to the stock... I do not see a lot of bleiker mechanisms on alu precise stocks, seems there is some rework to be done and Bleiker recommends it to be done by themselves in Switzerland (which also increases costs if you live in the US). I wonder if someone has any experience with this and might advise...
Thanks.

While I, personally, have no experience in this arena, I know of several people who have done it, so it can be done. From what I recall, it requires some machining of the Precise stock to make the inlet correct. The official Bleiker recommendation is that you send them the stock for them to machine; one option that may save you some cash is to buy a new Precise stock from one of the European vendors and have them ship it to Bleiker instead of you.

Why do you want to switch to a Bleiker? Depending on what you're hoping to accomplish, both Anschutz and Walther have new actions coming that may fix what you hope to fix. Since you're in the US, getting the Anschutz re-barreled is also an option. All of those choices will set you back less than a Bleiker; just a thought...

I have done this exact switch. I used a 2018 Precise stock (4 bolt, for a 2013). I had to machine out the stock as the Bleiker is approx 1mm wider than the 2013 and about 5mm longer.
The issue I had was what to put between the action and stock. I was unhappy with it straight onto aluminium as it appeared to "rub" at the front and back edge of the action (even though it was machined flat). After many attempts with many different materials I have gone back to directly onto the aluminium. I still have to re-torque it every time I use it as it won't group until I do.
So the recommendation to get the machining done by Bleiker is a good idea, they can check that the barrel/action and stock combination is grouping correctly before they send it to you. I know of two other Bleiker's in Precise stocks and they go very well.
I also wonder whether I should have used a two bolt Precise stock, I think the Bleiker action has the correct threaded holes to fit the two blot Precise (I will to double check that). Unlike the 4 bolt stock, the two bolt Precise has cup washers under the bedding bolts which keep the bedding bolt torque more constant.

I also changed the pistol grip to an adjustable one using a Gemini pistol grip as the standard Precise pistol grip didn't cant outwards. As the Bleiker trigger mechanism is much narrower there is room to mount the Gemini pistol grip up inside the stock next to the trigger unit.
I put a MEC Free Position butt plate instead on the std Anschutz butt plate. I still had to put some weight in the back as it was very nose heavy.
Let me know if you want some more info.
Happy Xmas
Martin

That's great information from all of you. I will have to dig a lot more into this issue before making a final decision. I guess my endpoint is to overall improve my system performance, taking advantage of the accuracy of bleiker, the shorter bolt and (from I have heard since I have no direct experience) what seems to be an excellent action and trigger mechanism. In the US Bleiker Challenger metallic is about USD 9900 at least according to the pardini website, and having the system adapted to a my anschutz stock was about USD 5000 (at least early this year).

Those prices are for the entire system, including the stock and buttplate. If you're going to provide the stock, Bleiker would only charge you for the barreled action and the machining (along with shipping, etc.). Your total cost will, though, still probably be around $10,000.

The word from those who shoot them is that they are an excellent trigger and action, but the bolts are prone to breakage. When they do break, you're sending things back to Switzerland for repair and they're charging accordingly. I would look closely at the KK500; Walther has a much better presence here than Bleiker, support wise, and the early word is very positive. Cost wise, things look much better, too.

I have looked into walthers and that would be also quite an improvement I think, but I have not a lot of info about the new KK model, only what the factory says. Any one with some hands-in experience to provide feedback? or maybe it is just too early to tell.

Well, Walther just presented Sarah Beard with one, so we may hear things in the near future. Not sure how many have made it into the US market so far, but I doubt it's any (other than Sarah's), and certainly not many.

The factory has improved the hardening of the bolt lugs and not longer appears to be a problem. You must specify what ammunition you want to use. if you get a action that is set up for Eley headspace it will be too tight to close on Lapua or RWS.
Martin

I would have done this switch if the Bleiker would fit into a 1918 (round action) Anschutz Precise stock. The 1918 Precise for the round action is narrower than the 2018 Precise for the square action Anschutz. It makes it unsuitable for the machining work necessary for installation of a Bleiker action.

I also know of several shooters using the combination you are thinking of. Conor McDermottroe of Ireland uses a Bleiker in a Precise stock. Matt Skelhon of the Great Britain Paralympic Team used one as well before switching to the Tec-Hro Fanatic stock. The Bleiker actions is so desirable (for good reason) that everyone has put them in almost every stock available. You see them in the Grunig and Elmiger XR series stocks, Anschutz Precise and Wood stocks, Feinwerkbau Alu stocks, Walther Anatomics, GE600s. The only stock I've not seen the Bleiker in is the Walther Alutec stock. I believe it has the same issue as the round action Precise stock...it's too narrow to accomodate the Bleiker.

My preference though if I were to make a change would be to get a Bleiker in their aluminum stock. It is quite comfortable. But as I don't have that kind of money at the moment, I think the KK500 would be the way to go. They are considerably easier to get in the USA and should you have a problem will be easier to get serviced.

I don't think you'll be losing anything getting a KK500 over a Bleiker. You'll save a ton of money and have the same ergonomic advantage of the Bleiker. It won't be a slouch in the accuracy and precision department I don't think. I saw ammo test results for Sarah Beard's KK500 while in Colorado earlier this month. I found them to be most acceptable. :-)

I feel the force is driving me towards Walther...

The KK500 definitely looks like a winner. Walther is calling it the "Bleiker Buster" and unofficially the "Anschutz Annihilator". Rumor has it Anschutz is already working on a new rifle since the KK500 obliterates it in so many categories. lol

The KK500 Alu stock also looks to be more versatile than most current stocks. I like the rear arrangement that allows you to offset the buttplate much like the built in non-adjustable offset on Precise stock.

Walther can do the same as Bleiker and supply a bolt optimized for the ammo you prefer. The 6 o'clock firing pin is great if that's something that's important to you.

One big selling point for many will be the available electronic trigger coming next year. Even if you get the mechanical trigger now, you can upgrade to the electronic trigger easily. it's just a module that you can add to the rifle.

ShootWithStyle wrote:I would have done this switch if the Bleiker would fit into a 1918 (round action) Anschutz Precise stock. The 1918 Precise for the round action is narrower than the 2018 Precise for the square action Anschutz. It makes it unsuitable for the machining work necessary for installation of a Bleiker action.

Too narrow, I knew there was a reason why I went to the 4 bolt Precise stock.

The Bleiker stock is not so advanced in terms of butt plate adjustment, the cheek piece isn't so adjustable and the pistol grip doesn't have much cant adjustment. All reasons why I didn't go for the Bleiker stock at the time of purchase. However it's big advantage is that is the stock that the barrel and action are designed for, they shoot very well and very consistently using Mr Bleiker's stock.
If I was to buy another I may get another stock, either the Bleiker or a G & E. However I love the Precise's shape at the front, it just fits so nicely into my front hand. And the adjustable cheek piece is brilliant.
Martin

Martin H wrote:And the adjustable cheek piece is brilliant.

Agreed. It is the best cheekpiece hardware I've ever seen: micro-adjustable for height, offset, and rotation FROM POSITION, and click-stopped besides. My only criticism is that the cheekpiece itself (the black part), doesn't have a scale on it anywhere for adjusting fore/aft. Every other adjustment has one, though.

ShootWithStyle wrote: The only stock I've not seen the Bleiker in is the Walther Alutec stock. I believe it has the same issue as the round action Precise stock...it's too narrow to accomodate the Bleiker.

I think it can be done. I have a memory that a Swiss lady shooter took Silver at the Munich World Championships with a Bleiker - KK200 alu combination. Guy Starik I'm sure used one briefly. Both were in the original milled alu stock, the one with the chunky triggerguard. As you say it may be too narrow.

I have come to believe that you can fit most any action into the Anschutz (Square) Precise Stock, my Gun Smith just finished putting a High Power Action into one. I would need some serious one on one time before I spent the money getting a Blieker into one. That said I do enjoy the idea.

guidolastra wrote:I am considering switching my system, and I might lean towards the (expensive) bleikers. I have been told some accessoriers won't fit Bleiker and being a 3P shooter this might greatly increase costs if I have to get new hooks etc... plus one gets used to the stock... I do not see a lot of bleiker mechanisms on alu precise stocks, seems there is some rework to be done and Bleiker recommends it to be done by themselves in Switzerland (which also increases costs if you live in the US). I wonder if someone has any experience with this and might advise...
Thanks.

I'm a very happy user of a Bleiker in an Anschütz Precise stock (as ShootWithStyle mentioned :)).

When I bought mine the stock choices from Bleiker were much poorer so I looked for a third party stock and the Anschütz Precise was the only one that fit my left hand comfortably. I bought the barrelled action and stock at the same time so my local Bleiker retailer shipped the stock to Bleiker for machining. If I was buying a Bleiker now I'd look seriously at getting their aluminium stock though. In terms of fit it's pretty close to the Anschütz Precise as far as I can tell.

As for whether or not you should buy a Bleiker, well, I'm very biased. It's the best rifle I've ever shot and I haven't ever regretted spending the money on it. The only part replaced in it is the firing pin (replaced after about 40,000 rounds) and apart from a few shallow strikes at the end of the previous pin's life it has never failed to operate as expected. It's the only rifle I've had where I've never even been tempted to tweak the trigger settings. It's perfect out of the box. The after-sales support from Bleiker has been great too.

My only concern in the US market is around the price. Why are you folks paying so much?

Pardini USA: $9900
Intershoot (Northern Ireland): £4880 ($7227.40)
Edinkillie (UK): £5162 ($7644.92)

Is there some special European Gun Import Tax that I don't know about? Is the import paperwork that bad? Bear in mind that both of those UK prices include 20% tax so the difference is even bigger than the ~$2,500 that it appears to be initially.

That's really good input,thanks. It would seem a very excessive extra money to pay in the US. I wonder if somebody has tried to import directly from Bleiker in Switzerland

For what it's worth, every price I've seen on US websites for ISSF stuff seems higher than expected. Usually by more than 20%. That would lead me to suspect import taxes and duties being the culprit.

If you email Bleiker directly they should be able to let you know if they've done a direct sale to a private individual in the USA. They may have some helpful advice.