TargetTalk

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:50 pm**

I'm an old guy (73) who's trying to shoot bullseye pistol using iron sights..... my scores aren't great, but they're beginning to inch up there..... I'm satisfied with the progress in slow fire.. Scores are coming along, mainly due to a lot of home air gun range practice with my Baikal IZH-46M.... I wish there was a way I could practice timed and rapid fire with an air gun at home.... anybody know of a reasonably priced .177 repeater air pistol accurate enough for bullseye practice?

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:18 pm**

5 shot (accurate) AP are not cheap. Expect to pay >$1,000 A used LP50 will fetch >$1,500

- Dave

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:00 am**

Check out this....quick.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50936

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:48 am**

I did.... thank you very much.... but there was a pm before me, so it's probably gone. I'm not only old, I'm a retired educator, so the LP50 is well beyond my means! Until I fall into something, I will load the Baikal and then try to simulate a recoil and practice getting the sights back in line. But the Walther might have done the job.....

(edit) Might still do the job, I can get a new one for a few more dollars......

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Walther_C ... barrel/108

Posted: **Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:33 pm**

Cousin Jack wrote:I did.... thank you very much.... but there was a pm before me, so it's probably gone. I'm not only old, I'm a retired educator, so the LP50 is well beyond my means! Until I fall into something, I will load the Baikal and then try to simulate a recoil and practice getting the sights back in line. But the Walther might have done the job.....

(edit) Might still do the job, I can get a new one for a few more dollars......

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Walther_C ... barrel/108

I wonder if the CP88 is blowback semi-automatic, where some CO2 is used to reset the hammer, or if it is functionally a DA/SA revolver, with a trigger that usually functions in double-action but can be cocked for single-action.

Looks like it's basically a CO2 revolver with no blowback semi-automatic feature in this video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94HYuHKEir4

I came across something called a Gamo PT-85, which IS blowback semi-auto, though the trigger appears to reset all the way forward (and is simply lighter when pulled, since the hammer remains cocked after each shot); perhaps it has a more 'tactical'-type trigger-reset that can be felt. I suppose functionally the PT-85 works like a auto-revolver; maybe that would be more appropriate for at-home sustained-fire practice?

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:41 pm**

There is a czech Co2 semi auto that was available. Maybe they are still being imported. Maybe you can find one on the airgun yellow pages. They can use the standard 12 gram bulbs or they have a bulk fill adapter where you can fill from smaller tanks. I am sure somebody like Mac-1 airguns has all the necessary adapters for the cheaper bulk fill. He used to convert old Tau 200 air rifles (same manufacturer) in to PCP.

http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/spaerb96.htm

I have one but got it when they were cheap. It has the same light trigger pull of a target gun.

Posted: **Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:01 pm**

The best training I did for bullseye was single shot air pistol. (I have an LP5 but only train single shot)

The best training I did for 10 meter air pistol was bullseye.

Here's some advice that came from a shooter with several years on you who still manages to out shoot a young-buck like me:

'First learn to shoot 10s. Then learn to shoot them faster.' (It's easier to shoot 10s when you remove the distraction of recoil, noise and (relatively) heavy triggers.)

'20 second series is the same pace as slow-fire except you don't put your gun down between shots. 10 second series is a little faster.' (Shoot 25 meter 4 second series from the ready position and 10 second series with the gun raised before facing is PLENTY of time)

Stick with the IZH-46. Spend the money on pellets, not a new gun.

Posted: **Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:09 am**

The B96 has been out of production for many years now. They díd have a pcp version for a short while (not anymore). Now they only have the singleshot Spider.
Besides that, the B96 was and is, terrible regarding reliability.
The steyr LP5 system is sooooooooooo much better

Posted: **Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:34 am**

Are there any 1911-type air pistols (not BB) out there that are suitable for BE training? I see several that are available, but I'm wondering if any BE shooters actually use them.

I know about the Steyrs, Aeron, etc. Just wondering if a good 1911 AP exists.

TIA

Stan

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:57 pm**

IMO multi shot air pistols are an expensive and not very effective training tool.

1. They are not legal for most air pistol competitions.
2. The trigger is totally different and too light compared to a .22 bullseye pistol.
3. The balance, feel and muzzle velocity is also totally different.

If you want to get better at .22 timed and rapid fire pistol shoot the .22. Use drills to improve. Shoot timed fire like a slowfire in practice. Don't set the gun down until you get 5 shots off or until you can't hold. Shoot 2 shots at a time... 2 quality shots... and set the gun down. Step that up to 3 quality shots... then 4... then 5.

Shoot rapid fire like a slightly faster timed fire. Focus on good quality shots.

If you need to invest in a air pistol that shoots 5 shots... maybe you should look into using those funds to get a better built .22 if you haven't done so already.

ETA:

Another drill I do is the 10-10 drill. Shoot ten 10's in slowfire.

Dry fire a LOT. You don't need to aim at a wall or anything. Get a dry fire plug or a blue aluminum dummy round and dry fire while just holding the gun in a rested position and not focusing on anything other than the trigger. Close your eyes and feel the trigger break. Do that 100's of times if you can every night.

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:57 pm**

bdutton wrote:........
2. The trigger is totally different and too light compared to a .22 bullseye pistol.
.......

Agree with most of what you said except the above when it comes to the Steyr LP50. My LP50 has the 2-4lb trigger option and I set it up to feel exactly like the 3 1/2lb roll trigger on my 45. It also has a 1911 grip and a red dot.

Expensive - yes, but it's the only air pistol with a trigger that matches the feel & weight of my roll triggers.

I'm a huge fan of dry firing but the LP50 lets me train at home, sometimes I like to punch holes in paper or sometimes I'll use the SIUS. Either way no 1 hour round trip to the range.

- Dave

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:26 pm**

For me the LP 50 was a great investment for bullseye shooting
I use an it for timed and rapid fire practice and it is a great tool to improve your scores and technique.

1. Yes they are expensive to purchase – if you are practice, it will pay for itself in a very short time.

An example:
A 1 hour practice session in my basement shooting 100 shots of rapid fire. Cost less than $3.00 pellets, targets and air

A 2 hours for range, 1/2hr drive each way plus 1 hour practice shooting 100 shots rapid fire. Cost: gas $4.00, ammo $10.00 (22cal) - $20.00 (45 cal) total $14-$24 each session.
Do this once a week for a year and you would safe $650 - $1050 per year. In about 2 years you have paid for the pistol

2. LP 50 can be used in all air pistol competitions
3. Like previously mentioned the trigger can be adjusted up to 4lbs pull
4. Balance & feel very similar to an AW 93, Walter, Pardini or other European style pistol.
5. Advantage of using one:

No recoil, just like dry firing you can see your mistake if you jerk the trigger.
Very little noise – don’t need hearing protection. (don’t develop a flinch because of the loud bangy noise)
You can set up a range almost anywhere and practice when you get the urge. Mine is in my basement (10 meter). I can go down stairs and shoot for a few minutes or hours and still be at home for the honey do's.

When I practice with the LP50, to compensate for the lack of recoil I set the targets to turn at 8 sec. this has the same effect as 10 sec in a match. I have to be aggressive on my trigger squeeze. If I hesitate (just like in a real match) it puts the pressure on my mind and helps my mind game as well. If I jerk the trigger I see it

You can also use it for slow fire as well.

Yes, I still go to the range to shoot my bullseye guns,

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:53 pm**

Neil H wrote:For me the LP 50 was a great investment for bullseye shooting
I use an it for timed and rapid fire practice and it is a great tool to improve your scores and technique.

1. Yes they are expensive to purchase – if you are practice, it will pay for itself in a very short time.
2. LP 50 can be used in all air pistol competitions
3. Like previously mentioned the trigger can be adjusted up to 4lbs pull
4. Balance & feel very similar to an AW 93, Walter, Pardini or other European style pistol.
5. Advantage of using one:

No recoil, just like dry firing you can see your mistake if you jerk the trigger.
Very little noise – don’t need hearing protection. (don’t develop a flinch because of the loud bangy noise)
You can set up a range almost anywhere and practice when you get the urge. Mine is in my basement (10 meter). I can go down stairs and shoot for a few minutes or hours and still be at home for the honey do's.

When I practice with the LP50, to compensate for the lack of recoil I set the targets to turn at 8 sec. this has the same effect as 10 sec in a match. I have to be aggressive on my trigger squeeze. If I hesitate (just like in a real match) it puts the pressure on my mind and helps my mind game as well. If I jerk the trigger I see it

You can also use it for slow fire as well.

Yes, I still go to the range to shoot my bullseye guns,

Posted: **Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:22 pm**

You may want to ask on Bullseye-L for second opinions, but I have never heard of an appropriate AP specifically for bullseye practice. The LP50 is the only one I've heard of but the price is prohibitive for a practice gun. I can see the advantages, but you can spend that much on a good quality used .22 (or a new one depending on your tastes), stick a plug in it, and dry fire away and then actually use it in competition.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:04 pm**

NEILH:

I'm not sure the LP50 is ISSF legal??

8.4.3.5 10m Air Pistol
Any 4.5 mm (.177 cal.) compressed air, CO2 or pneumatic air
pistol that conforms to the PISTOL SPECIFICATION TABLE and
PISTOL CONFIGURATION DRAWING may be used.

(table copy pasted below)
10m Air Pistol

Pistol Weight:
1) 1500 g max.
Trigger Pull:
2) 500 g min.
Measuring Box (mm):
420 x 200 x 50
Barrel length/sight radius:
Box Size Only
Grips:
No part of the grip, frame or accessories may touch any part of the wrist. The heel rest must extend at an angle
of not less than 90 degrees to the grip. This applies to the heel rest in front and behind the grip as well as on the sides. Any upward
curvature of the heel and/or thumb rest and/or a downward curvature of the side opposite the thumb is prohibited. The thumb rest
must allow free upward movement of the thumb. The grip must not encircle the hand. Curved surfaces on the grips or frame,
including the heel and/or thumb rest, in the longitudinal direction of the pistol are permitted.
Other specifications:
May only be loaded with one (1) pellet. Ported
barrels and perforated barrel attachments are
allowed.

"May only be loaded with one pellet" does that mean "multiple shot pistols are disallowed" or "Dont load more than one" i think, since it is in specifications, the feature is not allowed.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:21 pm**

I may be wrong,but I don't think there is a rules issue in regard to the LP50, LP5 etc. for AP match use.
For single shot use, you remove the 5 shot clip and replace it with a one shot clip. With this part in place, the pistol is a single shot. It can only be loaded and fired with one pellet at a time.

For those who consider such an AP as cost-prohibitive, re-read the post by Neil H!!

The simple math speaks for itself. While you still want to get to the range for regular firearm practice, the LP50 will quickly pay for itself. And, if you still come to the conclusion that you don't like it for some reason, you can easily resell it with a minimal depreciation in value of your initial expenditure.

Respectfully,
Jim

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:10 am**

Chuckiep wrote:"May only be loaded with one pellet" does that mean "multiple shot pistols are disallowed" or "Dont load more than one" i think, since it is in specifications, the feature is not allowed.

You can use a multi shot pistol for ISSF AP, but you can only load one pellet at the time.
If you must use the 5 shot clip, ask the referee before the match starts.
Same goes for free pistol (you can only load one round at a time).

Hope this helps

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:20 am**

The thread dedicated to the police raid on Steyr UK has been locked but UK shooters may be interested in an update on LP50 and variants.
http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/news/17 ... d-variants

Précis - awaiting a decision not on semi-auto status but self-loading status.

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:13 am**

TenMetrePeter wrote:The thread dedicated to the police raid on Steyr UK has been locked but UK shooters may be interested in an update on LP50 and variants.
http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/news/17 ... d-variants

Précis - awaiting a decision not on semi-auto status but self-loading status.

What is the current definition of "self loading"?

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:52 am**

Chuckiep

"I'm not sure the LP50 is ISSF legal??"

Yes the LP50 is legal for ISSF competition, I have shot mine in numerous matches and even shot it in the 2012 Olympic team try outs. I have seen other LP50's on the line as well. You can only load 1 pellet at a time, the single shot magazine was made for this and it does make it a whole easier to do. You can use the 5 shot magazine but it gets a little awkward.

This will probably start a big discussion but. As far as accuracy it is just as good as the LP10. I have both and I have shot scores in the 560's with both. I have master classifications in both indoor and outdoor precision pistol (bullseye) and I can't see the difference in accuracy between the two. I have tested both and I can get the same size single one hole groups with both.

Neil

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