TargetTalk

I got an Email from Champion Shooters Supply,
That the CMP is thinking of running a Prone Match during the Nationals.
And is working on a 1/2 course 3 P match as well.

Does anyone know what is happening?
Is the CMP trying to take smallbore away fron the NRA?

Several competitive prone shooters suggested to the CMP they take it away from the NRA. The Perry vs. Bristol shenanigans has upset more than a few.

Mark

Jake,

I am sure that Carl, and the rest of the vendors, would like to have some smallbore shooters spending money this summer on Commercial Row, and may be working in that direction with the CMP, but if there is any smallbore at Perry it won't be an NRA event.

Although, Dennis Willing wrote in the current Shooting Sports USA that there did exist a chance that smallbore might be back at Perry in 2017 if the CMP's plan to install electronic targets comes to fruition.

The NRA is the National Governing Body for conventional shooting in the US, has all of the trophies, and is committed to Bristol for the 2016 Smallbore Rifle Championships and Roberts Team selection.

The CMP is the National Governing Body for Service Rifle and Pistol with only a token smallbore presence in the CMP Games. If there is any smallbore at Perry this summer it will be the CMP running some sort of smallbore matches to fill in the empty time, and make a few bucks, left by the NRA smallbore departure.

As Herodotus once said, "I am bound to tell what I am told, but not in every case to believe it."

Hap

Now don't quote me on this but if memory serves, there was once a fall out between the NRA and the NMLRA "Muzzleloader" over national championships and sanction, The NRA tried to run their version at Perry, the hardcore group stayed at Friendship Indiana.. In the end the NRA gave in and sanctioned the Friendship match in joint with the NMLRA... Its all about what the biggest number of shooters desire.. Take the numbers away and eyes open & minds change in my opinion... Just food for thought..

Hap
The problem remains, that if the CMP runs some sort of fill in match, it will split
the amount of shooters going to Bristol.
With many opting to shoot at Perry. It would be much cheaper.
Some diehards would shoot both, if no conflict of time happens.

"that there did exist a chance that smallbore might be back at Perry in 2017 if the CMP's plan to install electronic targets comes to fruition."

Sure, a chance.
That statement means a maybe if eTargets are installed.
The NRA does what they want. They feel we are a drain on their funds.
Marty

Marty,

Your argument is sound.

As I said, I am bound to tell what I am told, but not in every case to believe it. I am not carrying the NRA's water, far from it, just making observations.

The NRA has several things going for it in regard to Conventional prone at Bristol this year. They have brought back the 6400, which is a big draw. Bristol is the site of the National Championship, a CMP Match at Perry is not. The 2017 Roberts Team selection is at Bristol this year. Not to mention the Dewar and Randle will be shot at Bristol. Given these thoughts I submit that the bulk of top tier of smallbore shooters will opt for Bristol as their first choice.

I am not clairvoyant but I will make predictions based on the following questions.
If the CMP sponsors a smallbore match at Perry this summer will some people go in lieu of Bristol? Maybe.
If the CMP sponsors a smallbore match at Perry this summer will some people go to both Perry and Bristol? Maybe.
If the CMP sponsors a smallbore match at Perry this summer will some people go to Bristol in lieu of Perry? Maybe.
If the CMP installs E Targets at Perry will the National Smallbore Championships return to Perry? Maybe.

I will be going to Bristol, even though I miss Perry tremendously, because that is where the National Championship will be held.

Best,

Hap

I just want to shoot smallbore wherever it is held. In my neck of the woods, it is pretty much Louisville in mid-May, Lima in June and July, Michigan in June and August, ORPA in June, Bristol in July, and Manassas in September. Eight events and sometimes these have conflicting dates. If the CMP offers a new event, I will be there.

If pistol move to Cardinal (Which it very well could) and the CMP does not install electronic targets at Camp Perry, you could see smallbore move to Cardinal in 2017. Although the range has not been built yet, based on what I have read and heard, it will be a much better location than Bristol.

In regards to conventional smallbore shooting 3-P and prone, the NRA is derelict as the governing body. Every smallbore competitor understands where we rank in the pecking order for range time at Camp Perry. During the brief period of the summer where school age shooters can attend (mid June to early August) all 3 bullseye style championships must be conducted. Pistol, Smallbore, High Power usually in that order. But to run the full CMP and NRA high power phase, plus the world long range championships, someone had to move out of the way and that was smallbore. So a 2 year hiatus away from Camp Perry was the deal. Combining the metric and conventional championships into one time frame at Bristol was a good idea for a couple of years but is not practical at Perry, there isn't the time.
The majority of competitors informed the committee by written record (the poll) that Perry was the preferred venue for the National Championships. It was discounted by the committee is suspect because of something mentioned by a junior shooter that coaches told them what to write down. If I'm the coach and trying to bring a team or 2 of juniors to try and win a national championship, your damn right I am telling them to put down Camp Perry. It is the most logical place to conduct a fair championship. It is the most economical place to house and feed a team of shooters. It is the place where THE NATIONAL MATCHES are conducted. I want to see the winners on a proper stage, in front of a huge American Flag, with the trophies that represent their win on the stage with them. Not in a glorified lunch room!
The sequester to Bristol marginalized the championship in the minds of many shooters. It directly caused a reduction in the number of individual competitors. The Bristol range could never accommodate 300 shooters. Is that good for conventional smallbore shooting? I say no it isn't. I don't want to see this sport die off because it is one of the very few where a shooter has a chance to be competitive when they are in there teens and when they are in there 80's. Show may another shooting sport where that is the case.
The CMP is more in tune with the bullseye shooting community today than the NRA. That is the mission of the entire organization. That is not the mission of today's NRA. Maybe it's time to change the governing body from NRA to CMP. CMP controls Camp Perry during the National Matches. They make accommodations for the NRA's championships but be clear on one thing, they are in control. Not the NRA. The vendors want smallbore back at Camp Perry for financial reasons but also because that is where we belong.
And consider this. Christi Sewell and Mark Johnson posted this on facebook.

Here are some National Match facts that we would like to share with everyone:
• NRA does not pay for portable toilets. The Civilian Marksmanship Program pays for portable toilets for the conduct of the National Matches (CMP & NRA events). We also pay for boat patrols, trash receptacles/pick-up, wood for target frames, impact zone advertising, gas for all CMP & NRA golf carts, and many other NM support items. CMP pays the NRA $60,000 each year to support the NM volunteer program & range staffing.
• The ranges at Camp Perry are leased to the Civilian Marksmanship Program for the entire duration of the National Matches and that includes the NRA National Championships. The only requirement from the OHNG is that we have a medic on each range and a range officer in charge during firing. The OHNG does not force us to keep a specified number of summer staff hires on the ranges for any reason. We are only required to follow basic established range safety rules.
• OHNG is not installing cement structures downrange or forcing the firing lines to be moved. CMP is researching the possibility of installing electronic targets at Camp Perry and nothing more. Even if we would install electronic targets, the smallbore firing line and target frames could stay in the same place they’ve always been. If smallbore would want to use our electronic targets, then they would have to move down range to use them.

By reading this the NRA is not even talking to the CMP. I say we turn over the record books and control of conventional smallbore to the CMP. They could buy the trophies from the NRA. By combining the CMP rimfire national championships, CMP air gun national championships, 3-P and prone championships, there would be 600 shooters at Camp Perry!
THAT IS HOW WE CAN GROW THIS SPORT

Mike Carter wrote:In regards to conventional smallbore shooting 3-P and prone, the NRA is derelict as the governing body. Every smallbore competitor understands where we rank in the pecking order for range time at Camp Perry. During the brief period of the summer where school age shooters can attend (mid June to early August) all 3 bullseye style championships must be conducted. Pistol, Smallbore, High Power usually in that order. But to run the full CMP and NRA high power phase, plus the world long range championships, someone had to move out of the way and that was smallbore. So a 2 year hiatus away from Camp Perry was the deal. Combining the metric and conventional championships into one time frame at Bristol was a good idea for a couple of years but is not practical at Perry, there isn't the time.
The majority of competitors informed the committee by written record (the poll) that Perry was the preferred venue for the National Championships. It was discounted by the committee is suspect because of something mentioned by a junior shooter that coaches told them what to write down. If I'm the coach and trying to bring a team or 2 of juniors to try and win a national championship, your damn right I am telling them to put down Camp Perry. It is the most logical place to conduct a fair championship. It is the most economical place to house and feed a team of shooters. It is the place where THE NATIONAL MATCHES are conducted. I want to see the winners on a proper stage, in front of a huge American Flag, with the trophies that represent their win on the stage with them. Not in a glorified lunch room!
The sequester to Bristol marginalized the championship in the minds of many shooters. It directly caused a reduction in the number of individual competitors. The Bristol range could never accommodate 300 shooters. Is that good for conventional smallbore shooting? I say no it isn't. I don't want to see this sport die off because it is one of the very few where a shooter has a chance to be competitive when they are in there teens and when they are in there 80's. Show may another shooting sport where that is the case.
The CMP is more in tune with the bullseye shooting community today than the NRA. That is the mission of the entire organization. That is not the mission of today's NRA. Maybe it's time to change the governing body from NRA to CMP. CMP controls Camp Perry during the National Matches. They make accommodations for the NRA's championships but be clear on one thing, they are in control. Not the NRA. The vendors want smallbore back at Camp Perry for financial reasons but also because that is where we belong.
And consider this. Christi Sewell and Mark Johnson posted this on facebook.

Here are some National Match facts that we would like to share with everyone:
• NRA does not pay for portable toilets. The Civilian Marksmanship Program pays for portable toilets for the conduct of the National Matches (CMP & NRA events). We also pay for boat patrols, trash receptacles/pick-up, wood for target frames, impact zone advertising, gas for all CMP & NRA golf carts, and many other NM support items. CMP pays the NRA $60,000 each year to support the NM volunteer program & range staffing.
• The ranges at Camp Perry are leased to the Civilian Marksmanship Program for the entire duration of the National Matches and that includes the NRA National Championships. The only requirement from the OHNG is that we have a medic on each range and a range officer in charge during firing. The OHNG does not force us to keep a specified number of summer staff hires on the ranges for any reason. We are only required to follow basic established range safety rules.
• OHNG is not installing cement structures downrange or forcing the firing lines to be moved. CMP is researching the possibility of installing electronic targets at Camp Perry and nothing more. Even if we would install electronic targets, the smallbore firing line and target frames could stay in the same place they’ve always been. If smallbore would want to use our electronic targets, then they would have to move down range to use them.

By reading this the NRA is not even talking to the CMP. I say we turn over the record books and control of conventional smallbore to the CMP. They could buy the trophies from the NRA. By combining the CMP rimfire national championships, CMP air gun national championships, 3-P and prone championships, there would be 600 shooters at Camp Perry!
THAT IS HOW WE CAN GROW THIS SPORT

I can't argue with the location preference. Bristol is simply not a range with the gravitas to hold the national championships for ANY shooting sport. Its a nice place to hold very large regionals.

Here si a link to the bullseye list forum and a discussion about the potential of returning smallbore to Perry or possible the Cardinal Shooting center just north of Columbus OH.

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4939-camp ... nal-center

You know there has been some talk that the ATA Grand American move to the Cardinal Center because of the financial problems in Illinois. That consumes two weeks in August. Probably will not happen but anything is possible.

It is sad how the NRA highpower rifle competitions have greatly reduced attendance at Camp Perry than 10 years ago. Not sure if smallbore suffered the same decline at Camp Perry since I only started attending 5-6 years ago. But there are fewer places to shoot smallbore and ATA trap in Ohio than 10-15 years ago. Maybe other types of competitions are taking their place or is there a general decline in competitive shooting?