TargetTalk

To start off, I'm not a world class shooter, I don't have a coach, and I participate in 10m air rifle on my own dime and on my own time. I didn't grow up with training options available, and didn't even consider air rifle until an NRA High Master told me that I really needed to pick up an air rifle for off season High Power training (and I started competing High Power after an AMU member told me I couldn't get better without competition). So I started shooting 10m in my basement three years ago, eventually picking up a used Crosman Challenger through this site. Starting air rifle at 33 is probably not the norm.

Two years ago I received orders to Germany, and had to leave all my firearms and air rifles and pistol behind (there is an almost impossibly high bar to meet to bring firearms to Germany even though it is possible). When I got here I purchased an AR20 from a local sporting good store, as well as boots, pants, and jacket. Some people purchase a German automobile when stationed here, I figured that sporting equipment could be my souvenir. I purchased a new shooting glove last month as my Creedmoor glove started fraying and having the rubber traction sections come loose. The shooting suit cost almost as much as the rifle, and I still need to purchase a real base layer as I've been using silkweight long underwear and a sweatshirt, but as long as I'm competition legal those purchases can wait for a little bit.

I joined a local Schutzenheim and they don't seem to mind that I'm an English speaker. We shoot twice a week, 40 shots. The targets are 10 bull strips that are scored on a Rika scoring system (not decimal scoring). A small motorized system brings the target to and from the firing line to the target line so the shooter can manually move the strip to the next bull in the target holder. The next closest club uses the Meyton Elektronic target system, which is very handy but more expensive.

The short story: The AR20 is cheap and accurate. The points of adjustment are adequate to fit the rifle to my 6 foot frame.

Interesting points: The AR20 is light, while mine came with two 100 gram butt stock weights, I had to purchase three 80 gram barrel weights to get a more favorable balance, so that added another 60 Euro to the price tag. Also the butt plate is a soft rubber and I'm looking to upgrade it with an aftermarket butt plate, so that adds another 80 to 140 Euro to the price tag. The butt is adjustable for length of pull using spacers and can be raised/dropped by loosening the attachment screws holding the buttplate to the stock. This is fine for setting up a rifle to a single shooter, but there is no way to "scientifically" repeat any adjustments if a shooter needed to adjust the rifle moving between shooting positions for 3P juniors. The cheek piece is the same, there is no way to make repeatable adjustments from the stock rifle (although you can get around this by making specific spacers to rapidly adjust the cheek piece).

The sites that came with the rifle are Walther basic competition sites, no complaints. The front globe is 17mm, and came with a 3.8 insert.

The trigger is adjustable for cant left/right, distance forward/backward, and overtravel. From the factory the trigger was too light, and would sometimes discharge on its own. A few twists of the supplied hex key to slightly increase trigger pressure fixed the problem, and I have not adjusted trigger travel to be effectively a single stage trigger at this time.

I've had the opportunity to shoot a Walter LG300 and a FWB700, and I find the AR20 trigger to be as good as the LG300 but not as good as the FWB700. Of course the LG300 was a club rifle, and the FWB700 was a member's rifle that he'd adjusted, so I don't know if that is a useful comparison to anyone but it is my impression.

The pile of empty pellet tins grows steadily but I've lost count of how many pellets I've shot. I've been using basic pellets from http://www.waffen-christl.de/ which is where I purchased the rifle and suit (I have no idea who actually makes the pellets, they are marked "made in germany" though). The rifle shoots them just fine, although I'm sure that the rifle could do better with much more expensive pellets I'm not a good enough shooter to take advantage of a small increase in precision yet. This combination hits the 10 every time I do my part correctly, so my focus now is correct consistency on my part.

So to sum it up, the AR20 is not the best option for a serious competitor. But it is a good option to get into the game if you are counting pennies to play and looking to improve your skills. It was a great option for me because air rifle is a training activity for my other sport even though it is my only sport right now. It is probably not a good option for precision 3P juniors due to the lack of repeatable ergonomic adjustments, but it is fine for standing which is the focus of German air rifle. The AR20 is marketed as entry level equipment, and it is, but until I can break a 360 out of 400, I can't justify a better rifle. Sure I have the desire, but don't we all?

I hope this has been interesting food for thought.

Nice review. Great detail.

Thanks for posting.

I am new to the sport and to the forums. Thank you for posting on this rifle. I have been curious how the Haemmerli stacks up against its pricier cousins. I noticed that this rifle and some others in the $1200ish and under price range have Lothar Walther barrels, as do the NRA "Sporter" rifles. Are these barrels basically equivalent or do the pricier rifles have an upgraded LW barrel? Any thoughts on the accuracy of the Haemmerli vs your Crosman? I would assume the greater adjustability and better trigger make quite a difference. I have a Daisy CMP surplus rifle and I have been trying to figure out if the $1000 rifles are a good upgrade or whether to go all the way to a used precision rifle when the time comes.

Thanks, EG

That's really a couple questions, the LW barrel verses non LW barrel, the sporter class versus precision class, and whether or not it is worth it to buy a new entry level precision air rifle compared to a used precision FWB/Walther/Anschutz.

The Crosman Challenger with LW barrel will hit the 10 ring every time if you do your part. The Hammerli AR20 has better adjustments to the shooter, and the trigger can be adjusted much lighter. The US Sporter Air Rifle rules dictate a higher trigger weight than precision air rifle class, although it is lighter than NRA High Power Service Rifle or CMP Service Rifle 4.5 lbs minimum for those events.

The sights that come with the Crosman are adequate, but I believe there are rules against upgrading them to something like a Walther Basic Competition site so people don't "game the rules" to give their juniors an unfair advantage. But for 10M shooting in the standing position only, once you've achieved a good zero, site repeatability between adjustments becomes a non-issue unless you change brands/lots/weights of pellets that requires a new zero.

The Crosman is easier to fill up with a Hill hand pump using standard quick release air fittings. The Hammerli uses a standard Walther air tank and you lose some pressure when unscrewing the tank.

Comparing a Daisy 953 with a Daisy 753 is the best direct comparison of a LW barrel and Daisy barrel. It would take a truly world class shooter to notice the difference as my experience directly comparing the two is that is is fractions of a pellet diameter at best. For a junior starting off, the extra money for the LW barrel would be better spent on LOTS of pellets for more trigger time, but with the cost of a CMP refurbed Daisy 853 being cheaper than a new 953, you can have your cake and eat it too so to speak. Not much you can do about the triggers though, they will never be as good as the Challenger or AR20 triggers even with the trigger mod.

The adjustments for LOP and cheek weld on the Crosman are also not scientifically repeatable, so juniors shooting three position will have to find a compromise setup for all three positions, or have someone manufacture custom spacers.

Two years ago I showed up at an air rifle match in Indiana with the Southern Indiana Rifle and Pistol Club (SIRPC) using the Challenger and sporter legal street clothes with glove. I wanted to shoot a match to see how well I could do, and while I obviously came in last place I received a number of compliments on my score from the precision class shooters. Shooting standing without a suit is much more difficult, all your wobbles seem magnified and holds are much shorter. So it was nice to have people encourage me, and I would like to see the NRA create a 3P adult sporter class to get the whole family involved in air rifle, especially with air rifles that don't cost more than the first car I ever bought.

So...is it worth it? When you consider the additional weights and buttstock, the answer is still a "maybe." I think that if you can get a used precision rifle for 1,300 or less it would be better to get the used precision rifle. A used Walther LG300 or new FWB500 is going to be about 500 dollars more than an AR20, but you get a real wood stock. An Air Arms S400 MPR is probably the best entry level competitor to the AR20. Right now Pyramydair has refurbed S400 MPRs for 849 US, which is less than they are charging for a new AR20, and a new S400 MPR is the same price as the new AR20. Both rifles are available new from the CMP within 10 dollars US of each other. I think that between the MPR and the AR20 most people would be better suited by the MPR, but since I needed an air rifle with F in Pentagon mark for German compliance, the MPR wasn't an option for me.

To sum up, entry level precision air rifles are as accurate as more expensive air rifles but they won't have as good accessories off the bat as a top level air rifle and might be a bit more difficult to fit to the shooter because they have fewer points of adjustment. I wouldn't buy a used precision air rifle until the price dropped to equivalent to a new FWB500, which is right aroung 1,300 US. You get what you pay for most of the time, and all the best shooters are using skeleton stocks with lots of adjustment, but I think because it is easier to fit the rifle than with a more traditional wooden stock.

I highly doubt that I will ever shoot well enough to justify a new FWB/Walther/Anschutz rifle, I'm closer to 40 than not and my best ever out of 400 is a 358. Other club members are generally shooting in the high 350s to upper 360s using FWB/Walther/Anschutz rifles for the 1st Team Air Rifle (I shoot on the 2nd Team Air Rifle), because generally my scores are low 330s to high 340s lately. But my goal is to break a 360 before the end of the season, and come into next years season stronger. Almost every town in Bavria has a shooting club and the local league is a bunch of people who have been competing against each other for years, so it's a great place to train without stress. Win or lose, there is always a restaurant attached to the club so you can enjoy a beer after the event.

I'm sorry if this doesn't fully answer your questions, but the transition point between sporter and precision is a murky topic.

Jimro

Jimro, An excellent reply, thanks for taking the time. We're a long ways from needing an upgrade, but I always like to have as much information as possible, even if I cant use it yet.

Thanks, EG

Jimro, I hope that you've had many successful years target shooting since your initial review of the AR20 - you must have enjoyed those high 360's!

Thought I'd write to say thanks for taking time, and to let you know it's still useful today in 2024.

This is a great thread and I have enjoyed reading it. The question of what to buy is one with no absolute answer. The best general response is for one to buy the best they can afford. The analysis here has been thoughtful. I am an old guy and don't shoot that well anymore but my approach has always been to get equipment that enables me to be somewhat competitive. Today the best equipment is just so expensive that you have to pick and choose what you can afford. Good luck.
Rick B.