TargetTalk

Hello,
I would highly appreciate if you would share opinions for using a .22 lr revolver or air pistol as training for centerfire ISSF( revolver).
I'm training alone, able to reach a shooting range once a week and shoot about 60 fires/ practice. Allready having a dry fire routine ( 3 - 4 times/week) I'm thinking more "trigger time" will be useful.
I have a SW 686 used both in 25 m CFP and PPC Distinguished Revolver and found a SW 617 ( .22lr) for sell.
Any suggestions are welcome.

As the ISSF CFP event is all single shots then recoil recovery is not a factor.

Also, the CFP minimum trigger weight has been 1000g since 01/01/2009.

It would seem that a .22LR revolver, similar to the CF one you use in matches, would be a good training aid. You will probably not manage to get the triggers identical but you should be able to get close enough.

If you plan on dry-firing the .22LR, make sure that you use dry-fire caps (turning them quite often) to avoid damaging the cylinder. I have heard that some people use wall plugs for this purpose.

Someone discovered that these wall anchors:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5 ... 51-2936868



Make excellent .22 dry fire devices. They are squishy enough that the don't break, and do a good job of cushioning the firing pin. They will also load & feed in many .22 semi-auto magazines!

Didn't think to dry fire 22 lr, I use my centerfire for that. Most of my mates are using Walther GSP in 22lr for training and put the conversion for .32 in contest.
I'm just thinking if is a smart acquisition ( .22 lr revolver) or should I stick with only dry fire and the little amount of live practice .
Cost reducing is my major concern about that.

If you are looking to do a lot of dry firing , I suggest you look for an early GSP or OSP with round barrel , they accommodated the 5 shot training trigger. You should be able to pick up fairly cheap.
I shoot both 22&32 Gsp Experts . I all my dry firing is done with an old OSP 22s with training trigger. which also allows me to dry fire the timed sections of each match.
The training trigger had or has a 500gm pull set up for the old rapid fire rules.
My one has had the spring changed so it is 1000gm.
food for thought
Cheers. S

A Walther GSP enables you to keep the same grip, frame and trigger unit while having a .22LR and .32S&W WC options. I don't know for sure but the Sako Triace might offer the same.

Since you're shooting single shot matches, for dry fire exercises you don't need the OSP training trigger, only a piece of resilient plastic between the bolt and breach, though you'll have to cock the pistol between shots. That way you can keep the same trigger action - the OSP training trigger does not have the same feel as the trigger you'll use in your matches.

I've raised the topic before on TT but not had a convincing response that the GSP/GSP-C/OSP does not need a buffer when dry firing as the shape of the firing pin head does not result in "dinging" the breach face. However, that's another story...

Bob

From what I understand from you practicing with a 22 lr it is a good training for centerfire, so I will looking for a proper .22 revolver.
Thank you for advises.

BobGee wrote:A Walther GSP enables you to keep the same grip, frame and trigger unit while having a .22LR and .32S&W WC options. I don't know for sure but the Sako Triace might offer the same.

Since you're shooting single shot matches, for dry fire exercises you don't need the OSP training trigger, only a piece of resilient plastic between the bolt and breach, though you'll have to cock the pistol between shots. That way you can keep the same trigger action - the OSP training trigger does not have the same feel as the trigger you'll use in your matches.

I've raised the topic before on TT but not had a convincing response that the GSP/GSP-C/OSP does not need a buffer when dry firing as the shape of the firing pin head does not result in "dinging" the breach face. However, that's another story...

Bob

If your practicing c/f or 25 m pistol , then you would use the training trigger for the timed sections , E.G duelling 10 & 20 sec
You only cock pistol once to fire 5 shots that's the whole point.

My "whole point" is that the 500gm OSP 5-click training trigger is non-adjustable and does not feel like your 1000gm fully adjustable shooting trigger.

You can use the OSP trigger for dry fire training for RF but that's not what the OP was asking.

Bob

BobGee wrote: You can use the OSP trigger for dry fire training for RF but that's not what the OP was asking.

On that basis I don't know why there is any discussion of the OSP/GSP. The OP was asking about a .22LR revolver to train for using his 686.

David Levene wrote:

BobGee wrote: You can use the OSP trigger for dry fire training for RF but that's not what the OP was asking.

On that basis I don't know why there is any discussion of the OSP/GSP. The OP was asking about a .22LR revolver to train for using his 686.

Because I wanted to put the option to him as cost is a factor, you cant get cheaper than dry fire .
Maybe he should try his mates GSP ,they all have em .
And you cant dry fire easier any other way ,than with the training trigger,
Also my training trigger had the spring changed to pull 1000gm,
Cheers . S

scausi wrote:Also my training trigger had the spring changed to pull 1000gm

Aha! So, where did you get the spring?

Bob

BobGee wrote:

scausi wrote:Also my training trigger had the spring changed to pull 1000gm

Aha! So, where did you get the spring?

Bob

Its just a heavier gage wire/spring cut to size , to look at there was not much difference between the 2
Cheers. S

cpt.gabriel wrote:Hello,
I would highly appreciate if you would share opinions for using a .22 lr revolver or air pistol as training for centerfire ISSF( revolver).
I'm training alone, able to reach a shooting range once a week and shoot about 60 fires/ practice. Allready having a dry fire routine ( 3 - 4 times/week) I'm thinking more "trigger time" will be useful.
I have a SW 686 used both in 25 m CFP and PPC Distinguished Revolver and found a SW 617 ( .22lr) for sell.
Any suggestions are welcome.

It should be a good way of practicing, raising and aiming at least.

The one bit of advice I would give is endlessly 'dry-firing' in single action can be counter-productive, in that you 'learn' the exact point at which the trigger releases.
When you do live fire, or go to a match, your perception changes and the trigger releases at an apparently different point.

The obsessive dry-firers are the people you see lifting the gun 5 times, shaking trembling and holding forever to release one shot.

Over-pressuring the trigger is better training. Lock the hammer back, eg with a bit of plastic between it and the frame, and squeeze the trigger until it hits the stop.

JamesH wrote:The obsessive dry-firers are the people you see lifting the gun 5 times, shaking trembling and holding forever to release one shot.

Sorry James, but I do not see the connection. Are you saying that an obsessive dry firer cannot release the shot because the perception of the trigger release point has changed in live fire? I think Keith Sanderson (US RF Olympian) might have a different view. His ratio of dry to live fire is some 200:1.

JamesH wrote:Over-pressuring the trigger is better training. Lock the hammer back, eg with a bit of plastic between it and the frame, and squeeze the trigger until it hits the stop.

Why is this good training as you get no appreciation of the trigger release? Or am I missing something?

Bob

JamesH wrote: ...people you see lifting the gun 5 times, shaking trembling and holding forever to release one shot.

This is a "picture" of me at ISSF contest! :D

BobGee wrote:

JamesH wrote:The obsessive dry-firers are the people you see lifting the gun 5 times, shaking trembling and holding forever to release one shot.

Sorry James, but I do not see the connection. Are you saying that an obsessive dry firer cannot release the shot because the perception of the trigger release point has changed in live fire? I think Keith Sanderson (US RF Olympian) might have a different view. His ratio of dry to live fire is some 200:1.

JamesH wrote:Over-pressuring the trigger is better training. Lock the hammer back, eg with a bit of plastic between it and the frame, and squeeze the trigger until it hits the stop.

Why is this good training as you get no appreciation of the trigger release? Or am I missing something?

Bob

When you do live fire, or go to a match, your perception changes and the trigger releases at an apparently different point.

This and the release of the shot is the middle of the process, not the end.

It basically comes down to how you dry fire. If you can condition yourself to squeeze through the sear release and ignore it, continue through to the trigger stop and keep squeezing for a bit then great.
The people who condition themselves to just tip past the sear release and then put the gun down are the people who end up unable to release a shot in a match.

With some guns the sear release can be locked out by various means, eg by locking the hammer back on a revolver, dropping the hammer on an automatic.
Its also good to twiddle a few adjustment screws at random from time to time, so you don't get too settled, or shoot different guns, or best of all shoot a roll-off trigger.