TargetTalk

While still on my hunt for my first AP several people recommended the FAS6004 as an intermediate between the Daisy and IZH, of course many don't like the weight and weight displacement of the IZH. Airguns of Arizona appeared to be the primary distributor this side of the pond and as of a couple days ago they said they were still on back order and had been since before Christmas and feared they might not even receive enough to clear the back orders and have a surplus. I checked with them one last time today before I ordered a Hill pump on sale at Pyramid and alas they had gotten word a batch had shipped and in fact had enough to take additional orders. So I just placed an order for mine, it saved me about $1300 over importing a LP10 and buying a pump, not that they're in the same league but at least this will give me a stepping stone instead of jumping to the nicest pistol on the market as my first AP.

So long story short. If you want a new FAS6004 I would order soon as they probably won't last long and there's no telling when the next shipment might arrive.

It would have been a bad move to order a LP10 and a worse one to order a Hill pump for it. (read too damned expensive)

The FAS is exactly what you need. If you're not competitive with it, it's YOU and not the gun.

I'll have to agree with Rover, it's the Indian not the arrow...The FAS 6004 will definitely polish your skills and when you reach the 550-560 mark, you should move up to the LP10 or any other first tier pistol that best suits you.

How times have changed! A few years ago the TAU7 would have dominated the conversation and now doesn't even appear. I always thought it was the best of the air pistols to take one to "the next level" - Steyr, Morini, Pardini, whatever. Presumably they're available; TGAG shows it on their site at very reasonable money for the level of performance. Weight is manageable if that's an issue. CO2 caplets are OK if not ideal. Barrel and trigger are exemplary, and I'm sure Doug W would be happy to sell one of his cute dry-fire devices.

I'm not quite sure what the situation is with Tau-7's. One rumor is that the chamber in the grip is being considered a compressed gas cylinder, and with the new rules, that means your entire pistol is scrap after 10 years. If you don't want to compete at a level where they bother with such nonsense, they would be fine, but the uncertainty is messing up the supply chain.

"One rumor is that the chamber in the grip is being considered a compressed gas cylinder, and with the new rules, that means your entire pistol is scrap after 10 years."

If this is true, then all the classic SSPs are in the same boat. After all, they hold compressed gas even if only for a short time before the next shot releases it. Or does the rule specifies volume and/or pressure minima which I'll bet it doesn't? Bye, bye, all you beautiful FWB, Pardini & Walther single-strokers, and many if not most of the Izh46M's.

Who knows? The rules aren't that detailed, so it's up to some committee to interpret them. Making all of the older pistols go away would definitely boost sales for new pistols, which means the more short-sighted manufacturers of PCP pistols will lobby for it. I've heard rumors that the 10 year limit was pushed by one of the manufacturers so they could sell more cylinders. There is certainly no technical reason why cylinders that used to be certified for 15 or 20 years are suddenly "unsafe".

The downside is that making it "illegal" to use older equipment will shutdown a vast number of junior programs & shooters who can't afford new gear. In today's business environment where the next quarter's results are all that matters, I'm sure there would be business school grads doing their best to strangle the future of the sport in favor of selling more pistols & cylinders in the short term.

The Tau-7 design could be modified to use a replaceable cylinder, but as they were originally manufactured, the cylinder & frame are brazed together. Making it replaceable will create a new place for leaks, and increase costs.

You guys are under the mistaken impression that someone actually cares what these "rule-makers" have to say.

Is there actually a club out there in the U.S. (other places, too) that would even give a crap about this.

Pants-pissers need not reply.

Give it a rest Rover. You seem to have a very limited world view, largely centered around yourself. If a pistol works for you, it's good enough for everyone. If the places you shoot don't enforce the rules, then they shouldn't matter to anyone else on the planet.

USAS just held the Junior Olympics in Colorado Springs. They had about 60 shooters for pistol, and they ALL had to meet the cylinder rules. Local clubs don't bother, but if you aspire to moving up in the sport, it's a serious concern for a lot of junior programs & shooters. The NRA runs collegiate shooting, and hasn't switched to the new rules (yet). As soon as they do, many teams will have dozens of air pistols that will be scrap overnight.

The team I coach has about 15 Hammerli 480K's with the old tanks. They were rated for 20 years, and still have 3 or 4 years of life, at least according to Hammerli. There used to be conversion kits available to the AP40 cylinders (which you can still buy), but they evaporated when Walther bought Hammerli. Even if we replaced the 480K's with FAS 6004's, that's about $7,500 we don't have lying around.

Rover wrote:You guys are under the mistaken impression that someone actually cares what these "rule-makers" have to say.

Is there actually a club out there in the U.S. (other places, too) that would even give a crap about this.

Pants-pissers need not reply.

Pretty much agree there.

Here in New Zealand we don't bother enforcing the cylinder rule, even at our Nationals. If we did we would loose a significant percentage of entries as those with old guns wouldn't bother to enter. They wouldn't go out and buy new ones, they just wouldn't enter the competitions.

We just make sure that anyone who plans to go international is aware of the rules.

Hey, J-team. Pretty much what I thought.

BTW I toured both islands by motorcycle. I could never figure out why the restaurants didn't have lamb on the menu. I did hit the Pig and Whistle, though.

This is the recall that started all this 10yr rubbish.
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/Anschutzrecall.pdf

David M wrote:This is the recall that started all this 10yr rubbish.
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/Anschutzrecall.pdf

If this is true it makes the 10-year even more nonsense than we all have thought. The cylinder in the picture was made in 2005 and failed in 2006. The failure had nothing to do with normal stresses and fatigue; it was a manufacturing defect that showed itself almost immediately.

I'm all for rules that really do improve safety and reasonable homologation (as much as I hate the word), but this rule does neither. Can anything get ISSF to change their mind short of a boycott of a major match or two? ISSF-TV would be absolutely spellbinding(!) if the boring-as-hell announcers got to sit and prate in an empty competition hall.

Gwhite wrote:Give it a rest Rover. You seem to have a very limited world view, largely centered around yourself. If a pistol works for you, it's good enough for everyone. If the places you shoot don't enforce the rules, then they shouldn't matter to anyone else on the planet.

Indeed, "there are two kinds of people, Tuco, those with loaded guns and those who dig." If you are like most old geezers on this board, you have nothing to worry about. If you are a young upstart who trains to make his mark in the sport, or his coach, you do have something to worry about. As a baby boomer, Rover, you may be involuntarily promoting the notion, undoubtedly ungrounded and ultimately unjust, that this generation is selfish and entitled.

I am fervently an old geezer and definitely entitled to the benefits of curmudgeonhood.

I don't understand the problem with tanks and dates. If you wish to play ISSF or NRA, it matters, and the participants know that. If you're not shooting in contests where tank scrutiny is in progress, good for you.

Why aren't we bitching and moaning about the cost of annual/periodic test requirements for the scuba tanks we charge guns with.... NOT ONE PEEP....

We use SSPs.

BTW It doesn't matter, except to a few. That was the point.

Also, even the dive shops don't care.

Only you....

Rover wrote:It would have been a bad move to order a LP10 and a worse one to order a Hill pump for it. (read too damned expensive)

.....have a LP10L and a Hill pump......

The Hill pump it by far the nicest pump I've ever used. Much smoother, easier up-stroke, and takes less weight on the down-stroke.

Rover, I admire your demeanor. As an "geezer" myself I considered this Tank limitation of 10 years to be just another way for the ISSF to lord it over all of us. My answer is the same as yours, I couldn't let it bother me....as I will never, not ever, no never shoot in International matches where the ISSF has the sole authority nor the USAS rules either......"Doc"

Well I just got word my fas6004 shipped today. They received mine from the second half of their shipment, the first half was already spoken for. They might have a few left. I can't wait to get it.