TargetTalk

NRA Production Divison in BE in 22 class

3. Production Division - A Production Firearm is a semi-automatic handgun or revolver which is or has been a catalog item readily available to the general public equipped with factory notch & post sights. All standard safety features of firearms must operate properly. The firearm shall have no visible internal of external modifications except as follows:


Rule 3a states: Grips may be replaced or modified to fit the competiitors hand or to faciliate loading. Checkering, stippling, grip tape and grip sleeves are permitted.

b) Barrel length may not exceed 5.35 inches for semi-automatic pistols and may not exceed 6 inches for revolvers.

Yet prohibited items:

e) Thumb rest grips or magazine extensions.Dont thumb rests constitute fiting the competitors hand?

g) Single Action Semi-Auto Pistols are prohibited

Why Call it "production division" when a whole class of pistols like brownings that are production original are considered prohibited.

I thought the idea was to get more people shooting and entering more matches and generation match fees.

This is a head scratcher to me.

Since you posted in 2 places, I will too....

Old scruffy gentleman with a lingering aroma of Hoppes No. 9 and bourbon and well worn 1911 on his hip drags a creaky and mangled soapbox to the busy street corner, steps onto the soapbox and commences with:

Please read my other posts on this in the other threads. Production division is not for "production" firearms. It is a definition of a "division" or "class" of competition designed to allow firearms that would otherwise not be competitive with the 1911 type to have a separate class to compete.

The definition was designed for Action Pistol (formerly Bianchi Cup) competition and if single action semi-autos were allowed they would essentially have dominated the class and the shooters the rule change were trying to cater to (read as intended to get more participation - doesn't that sound familiar) would have still been out of luck.

Since the general security, police and others have moved away from the single action platform, the "production division" rules were structured to allow most of the DA, DA/SA, Striker fired guns with proper barrel lengths and not custom shop stuff, and disallow SA semi autos.

The rule also generated several "max rule" production guns as the competition Sig and the 5.25 Springfield XDm. Again, so much for not having to get a "more" competitive gun for the class.

Unfortunately, since most general use .22 firearms are single action semi-autos, this also precludes the Rugers, Model 41's, Buckmarks, etc. If you want to shoot them in a class, see the CMP Distinguished .22 program.

So once again, trying get more participation through creating more classes for people to "win" in has its own unintended consequences and the more rules you have the more people will work to go to the limit of the rule (rather than training to the limit of their ability). And the rule makers tend to forget that participation is proportional to the number of matches available to the public, not the number of classes within a match.

Scruffy old gentleman steps down from the creaky soapbox and walks quietly down the street shaking his head sadly........

The NRA has done a number of head scratching things in the last couple of years. I imagine this is another one that wasn't particularly well thought out.

I am sure it will be hashed over by the pistol committee and clarified at some point in time.

I am confused...what is a double action semi-automatic...and why is the single action semi-automatic so superior? Note that I only own target pistols so I do not know the difference...(look at my signature..). Which model would be considered a double action in .22?

conradin wrote:I am confused...what is a double action semi-automatic...and why is the single action semi-automatic so superior? Note that I only own target pistols so I do not know the difference...(look at my signature..). Which model would be considered a double action in .22?

Double action = the first part of the trigger pull cocks the hammer as you continue to pull the trigger the hammer drops.
Single action = you must cock the hammer either directly or buy racking the slide like a 1911.

- Dave

conradin wrote:I am confused...what is a double action semi-automatic...and why is the single action semi-automatic so superior? Note that I only own target pistols so I do not know the difference...(look at my signature..). Which model would be considered a double action in .22?

Well the Beretta FS 92 is a double action semi auto. It can be shot in double action mode and pulling the triigger cocks the hammer and then drops the hammer, just like a revolver.

The single action mode is superior because the trigger pull is less than half the weight than shooting the gun double action.

Most successful revolver shooters in bullseye are extremely good at thumb cocking the gun, which allows them to shoot single action.

So let's see, What .22's could you buy that are not SAO?

I can only think of a few!!

-Most revolvers in .22
-Bersa thunder
-Walther PPKS in .22
-Walter p22?
-Sig mosquito
-S&W M&P .22
-Ruger SR22

and???

the only target DA pistol I can think of is the: Beretta 89 or 87 target ... but it has adjustable sights...

The only "common" production gun that might be laying around in peoples safes, are .22 revolvers.

This divsion should be split up into 2 categories:

"Non adjustable sight Revolvers"
and
"Secret Agent Guns"

hehehe :) :)

Chuckiep wrote:
the only target DA pistol I can think of is the: Beretta 89 or 87 target ... but it has adjustable sights...

The Beretta 89 is SAO for sure, and I think the 87 is as well.

FredB wrote:

Chuckiep wrote:
the only target DA pistol I can think of is the: Beretta 89 or 87 target ... but it has adjustable sights...

The Beretta 89 is SAO for sure, and I think the 87 is as well.

Yup, the 87T(arget) is SAO. The 87 Cheetah is DA/SA.

kle wrote:

FredB wrote:

Chuckiep wrote:
the only target DA pistol I can think of is the: Beretta 89 or 87 target ... but it has adjustable sights...

The Beretta 89 is SAO for sure, and I think the 87 is as well.

Yup, the 87T(arget) is SAO. The 87 Cheetah is DA/SA.

haha I see that now, oh well. I thought i remembered it DA/SA but that was over 10 years ago. All I remember is the over-travel was horrendous.

Chuckiep wrote:

kle wrote:Yup, the 87T(arget) is SAO. The 87 Cheetah is DA/SA.

haha I see that now, oh well. I thought i remembered it DA/SA but that was over 10 years ago. All I remember is the over-travel was horrendous.

Yup, the overtravel on a stock 87T is a lot. When I tried out an 87T for the first time I was thoroughly unimpressed. Recently, however, I've been shooting high-master+ scores in my local .22 league with an 87T that's had some work done to it - namely an extended overtravel stop attached to the back of the trigger that takes out a lot of the overtravel.