TargetTalk

I tried to ask this question in a shooting clinic but I still did not get a satisfactory answer.

Nowadays to show the safety of an AP is to use a weed cutter, from outside the chamber to outside the muzzle. I presume SSP AP can also do this.
But what about SP (Spring pneumatic)? FWB65 and the like cannot have its breech or chamber open unless it is cocked. However once it is cocked you must shoot in order to close the chamber. Dry firing a FWB 65 is asking for trouble because you can damage the seal. If you use cleaning pellet you need to stuff three or four of them to be on the safe side. Otherwise the only alternative is to shoot a pellet.

So how do you show safety? If one insist to use the orange weed cutter, then one must be given the chance to shoot a pellet after inspection, before a proper shot can be taken. There really is no other way to signal safety on an FWB65.

Anyone has any idea? If you run a tournament what do you do with your SP or FWB65 competitors? There are still plenty of people using these air guns out there...and they are legitimately competitive.

You have always been required to leave the breech open when you put any
pistol down on the bench.
Now you just need to use the indicator as well.
So for a FWB65 nothing really has changed.
At the end of a match the pistol is open and needs to be cleared, closed and fired to
put away.
The damage to a FWB65 can be reduced by using a felt cleaning pellet or by
pushing the muzzle into a carpet or cloth to discharge.
All you need to do is to create a small back pressure to stop the pistol slamming
into the end of the cylinder. Most damage is caused by unrestrained dry firing
which should never be done with a FWB65 or 80.

David M wrote:...The damage to a FWB65 can be reduced by using a felt cleaning pellet or by
pushing the muzzle into a carpet or cloth to discharge...

NOT your finger - that pellet is a proper mongrel to dig out and the Range Officer does not need the extra paperworl

David M wrote: The damage to a FWB65 can be reduced by pushing the muzzle into a carpet or cloth to discharge.

Would you be able to explain how and WHY exactly this method work? Firing nothing "no felt pallet" right?

probably because the carpet or cloth provide a some resistance to the air pushed by the piston.
a felt pellet is even better as it will simulate the resistance of the real pellet.
that way the piston will expand more closely to its design rate and you will have less chance of damage to it.

conradin wrote:Dry firing a FWB 65 is asking for trouble because you can damage the seal. If you use cleaning pellet you need to stuff three or four of them to be on the safe side. Otherwise the only alternative is to shoot a pellet.

I'm sorry but if you're concerned about firing the gun without a pellet, which may be justified, should you be using it in a match where you know that you might get picked for a post-match equipment control.

It's the competitor's responsibility to make sure that their equipment is suitable for testing.

David Levene wrote:

conradin wrote:Dry firing a FWB 65 is asking for trouble because you can damage the seal. If you use cleaning pellet you need to stuff three or four of them to be on the safe side. Otherwise the only alternative is to shoot a pellet.

I'm sorry but if you're concerned about firing the gun without a pellet, which may be justified, should you be using it in a match where you know that you might get picked for a post-match equipment control.

It's the competitor's responsibility to make sure that their equipment is suitable for testing.

David, the question was how a FWB65 shooter show the officer that his pistol is safe under regulation. The weed trimmer solution is what everyone is used now (according to the rule too). But the weed trimmer solution cannot apply to a FWB65 unless the pistol is cocked. While other pistols (Co2, PCP, etc) you can uncock or dryfire afterwards, the FWB65 must fire *something* in order to avoid damage. In that case, can the Officer allow the competitor to shoot an extra round so that he can put the FWB65 away and back in the case?

Notice that anyone with a PCP/CO2, etc pistol can do the weed trimmer method anytime and also as many times as possible without the need to fire any projectile, indeed no gas is released. But for the FWB65 there is no such convenience.

Hence in that case should the officer "trust" the competitor and allow the competitor to not use any safety signal (ie. no weed trimmer).?

conradin wrote:

David Levene wrote:

conradin wrote:Dry firing a FWB 65 is asking for trouble because you can damage the seal. If you use cleaning pellet you need to stuff three or four of them to be on the safe side. Otherwise the only alternative is to shoot a pellet.

I'm sorry but if you're concerned about firing the gun without a pellet, which may be justified, should you be using it in a match where you know that you might get picked for a post-match equipment control.

It's the competitor's responsibility to make sure that their equipment is suitable for testing.

David, the question was how a FWB65 shooter show the officer that his pistol is safe under regulation. The weed trimmer solution is what everyone is used now (according to the rule too). But the weed trimmer solution cannot apply to a FWB65 unless the pistol is cocked. While other pistols (Co2, PCP, etc) you can uncock or dryfire afterwards, the FWB65 must fire *something* in order to avoid damage.

My point is that the pistol will have to be fired without a pellet if selected for equipment control, so what's the difference between that and firing it without a pellet after removing the line.

Under the old rules you would have needed to fire it without a pellet at least once for each match, at equipment control. Under the new rules you still have to fire it without a pellet once per match (when removing the line to box it) plus the rare occasion when you are chosen for a post-match check.

David Levene wrote: My point is that the pistol will have to be fired without a pellet if selected for equipment control, so what's the difference between that and firing it without a pellet after removing the line.

Under the old rules you would have needed to fire it without a pellet at least once for each match, at equipment control. Under the new rules you still have to fire it without a pellet once per match (when removing the line to box it) plus the rare occasion when you are chosen for a post-match check.

I C. So using a FWB65 you always have to take into account that you may break the seal.

conradin wrote:

David Levene wrote: My point is that the pistol will have to be fired without a pellet if selected for equipment control, so what's the difference between that and firing it without a pellet after removing the line.

Under the old rules you would have needed to fire it without a pellet at least once for each match, at equipment control. Under the new rules you still have to fire it without a pellet once per match (when removing the line to box it) plus the rare occasion when you are chosen for a post-match check.

I C. So using a FWB65 you always have to take into account that you may break the seal.

That's about it, at least as far as EC is concerned.

At the end of the match, provided that the shooter told me what he/she intended to do and that I was observing, I would be happy for the shooter to remove the line, close the lever and then press the muzzle down onto a piece of soft rubber on the bench before pulling the trigger.

This becomes much simpler when you discover that the factory states the FWB65 MAY be fired without resistance without damage. You CAN dry fire. I have also found that half a Q-Tip gives plenty of resistance, and cleans the bore.

You could also partially cock the gun just enough to insert the weed eater.

(I've owned three of them.)

Rover wrote: You could also partially cock the gun just enough to insert the weed eater.

(I've owned three of them.)

I've owned two and I could never figured out how to have the breech BARELY opened.

conradin wrote:

Rover wrote: You could also partially cock the gun just enough to insert the weed eater.

(I've owned three of them.)

I've owned two and I could never figured out how to have the breech BARELY opened.

That is strange because all of the FWB's 65/80/90 have the safety ratchet/antibear trap that activates
when the lever is pulled back allowing you to have the breech partially open...

kevinweiho wrote:

conradin wrote:

Rover wrote: You could also partially cock the gun just enough to insert the weed eater.

(I've owned three of them.)

I've owned two and I could never figured out how to have the breech BARELY opened.

That is strange because all of the FWB's 65/80/90 have the safety ratchet/antibear trap that activates
when the lever is pulled back allowing you to have the breech partially open...

Maybe me having both my FWB65 on recoil locks made the difference?

Naah

Surely, FWB65/80/90 can be dry fired once in a while without any harm. First of all it has no traditional seal but a soft metal ring (like in motor engine) so sealing is not damaged. And if I remember correctly piston front has additional plastic/rubber bumper in front to prevent metal to metal contact. Problem might occure if you are not sure if this buffer is there and if it still works. Problem is it deteriorates with time and eventually will go into pieces due to aging rather than shock caused by dry firing.
So no worries as long as you have it under control and check once in a while internal condition of the gun.

Great gun by the way. FWB90 was my first match grade pistol and from time to time I think about owning one again for sentimental reasons. :)