TargetTalk

Hello,

The weight of my Pardini K12 cilinder is 246gr.

Howmuch is the weight of the other cilinders of Pardini?

I would like to puchase a lighter cilinder for my K12..

Its a little bid to heavy for me at the nose..

I think you could make a rough guess as to the weight of the cylinder for the Pardini Kid. It looks to be about 60% or so of the length of that used on the K12, so allowing for the valve and pressure gauge and end caps being similar weight I'd guess the approximate weight to be about 180 grams. So far as I know the whole family of Pardini APs uses the same threading for attaching the cylinders. But of course you should confirm that somehow before ordering one. The Kid weighs 700 grams. The K12 about 995 grams. Much of the savings in the Kid is from the much more compact grip, but the core of the pistol is similar, and the barrel is fairly long, so it seems likely you could lighten the front end weight of your K12 by using a Junior or Kid cylinder.

Changing from a Morini EI short to a K12, it feels nose heavy to me as well. Overall, the K12 is ligthter due to the lack of electronics. One way I was trying to eliminate the feeling of it being barrel heavy was in the fitting of the grip (tight in the back so it would be more difficult to dip in the front). Was also wondering if adding some lead into the bottom of the grip or somewhere else in the back of the grip might help. Is is something I will just get used to? Seems like the majority of shooters use a long barrel and I don't hear any complaints about them being barrel heavy. Thought about changing to the short K12 but when you are at the mercy of someone elses fill services and are lucky to get a 90% fill, I am only getting around 60 shots from the Morini before I have to override the manual lockout. I can get a good 20 shots overriding the Morini lockout and still get good shots. I don't want to mess with a short cylinder of any brand because of this experience now so will I get used to it or is there a way to balance the gun?

Since every part of the pistol must be, by the rules, ahead of your wrist, and since the place where it's tending to nod downward is ahead of the wrist, I really doubt that adding lead anywhere on the pistol is going to point the muzzle upwards. Weight is going to pull your hand downward even if it's at the very back of the bottom of the palm shelf. I suppose you could have a machinist trim the compensator/sight block down by maybe 30-40% on a lathe maybe following up with a drill in a few places, but worth it? Might shave off a few grams but hardly enough to be worthwhile, and almost certainly an ugly result. No, I think the better route might be adding weight to the front of the barrel. Make or buy some sort of weight to add during training. Film cans have been demonstrated for this purpose somewhere, as they slip over some cylinders. Just find something you can slip onto the cylinder then tape weight to, or small pieces of metal you can slip onto the barrel, then get used to shooting with the heavier gun. In time your strength will increase to match the heavier weight, then taking the weight off will make the gun very easy to hold on target.

thanks Gerard. Sounds logical and a good idea making it feel heavier. Guess the different feeling between the 2 guns is really noticeable at this point. Guess if I had always had a long barrel, I might have never noticed this then or now. Maybe I could swap one of the cylinders for a short and see how that goes. Maybe the Pardini short will get me more shots than the Morini.

Is there nobody with a Pardini k10 cilinder that have a scale to let me know what the weight is of the cilinder?

I have a Pardini k12 new model but wants to know the weight of the existing cilinders of the Pardini air pistols.

Thought someone had already answered your question. Plenty people have scales but very few have a long and short cylinder for a K10. I'm not even sure if I know anyone who owns a K10. I did look up the weight difference between the K10 and the Junior. Even though there will be a little weight difference between the Junior barrel being 35mm shorter, there may be some weight added if the rear sight or grip goes back a little further like on the short morini. Not sure if that is the case since you can't get the same full sight radius on the Pardini like you could on a short Morini. So...... to make this long story shorter- I don't know. However, the weight difference between the short and the long K10 is 90 grams and you can assume that 95% of that difference is due to the cylinder. So 3.1 ounces. That should be close enough information for why ever you need to know. Hope this helps.

Since every part of the pistol must be, by the rules, ahead of your wrist

Can you tell me what rule states this? Other than fitting in the box, and not touching the arm behind the wrist, I was not aware of any size restrictions.

dschaller wrote:

Since every part of the pistol must be, by the rules, ahead of your wrist

Can you tell me what rule states this? Other than fitting in the box, and not touching the arm behind the wrist, I was not aware of any size restrictions.

Rules 8.12 and specially 8.13

Rule 8.13?

ISSFRuleBook2013-2ndPrint-ENG wrote:8.1.3 When a Rule refers to right-handed athletes, the reverse of that Rule refers to left-handed athletes.

Perhaps it's 8.13 in the older rulebook? Here's what I find in the most recent edition:

8.4.1.1 Grips.
a) Neither the grip nor any part of the pistol may be extended or constructed in any way that would allow it to touch beyond the hand. The wrist must remain visibly free when the pistol is held in the normal firing position. Bracelets, wristwatches, wristbands, or similar items are prohibited on the hand and arm that holds the pistol; and
b) Adjustable grips are permitted providing that when they are adjusted for the athlete's hand they conform to these Rules.
Grip adjustments are subject to random Equipment Control checks to ensure that they conform with these Rules.

However, looking many pages later at the drawings which share the reference number 8.13, it seems I have made an error. The drawing which I took to be an AP grip and which contains the text "The point where the top of the grip touches the hand may not extend more than 30mm from the deepest part of the grip" is in fact for 25m pistols only. I see no such limitation for 10m AP. So yes, I suppose you could extend some element of the grip further back than the wrist, so long as it was in compliance with the rule stating that no part of the grip should come into contact with the wrist. You might have trouble fitting such an extended weight into the box with a standard length barrel, but it could be possible with a short model pistol. I wouldn't want to be the test case for such a modification at a competition though... might upset an official, and officials tend to be right, whether they're right or not.

Guys,
I drove today to Lido di Camaiore to try a K12 (unfortunately only dry).

They have changed the air cylinder. The new ones are 30g heavier, and, UNFORTUNATELY, at the tip of the barrel!
That is because they have changed the pressure gauge, which has become at least twice as thick and, accordingly to one of the employees, this weights 30 grams more.

I have to say that, in comparison to my LP10E, the pistol is very much unbalanced towards the front. Too much for me and it strains my forearm muscle.

Pity! The trigger is, however, a dream! Incredibly dry….as good as an electronic trigger.

In fact, for my limited experience, superior to the trigger of my LP10E, but not as good as Matchguns MGH1.

The standard grip is also nowhere as good as the standard grip of MGH1.

The new cylinders are not gold plated any more. They have the same colour of the shutter of the pistol and of the trigger, i.e. kind of aluminium.

I suppose it's the newer wrench flat section which is primarily responsible for the weight gain. Seems some shooters don't bother cleaning the threads periodically and adding a dab of grease, so it becomes harder to swap cylinders. Cleaned and very lightly lubricated there should never be a need for a wrench. Pity. An extra 30grams at the front would be bothersome. I'm glad to have bought an early K12 for this reason.

Gerard,
the wrench is at the connection of the cylinder with the pistol, isn't it?

What they have changed is the other end. The new pressure gauge must be for sure 1.5" , i.e. 40mm… at least twice as thick as the old one. I have to say it doesn't look good either.

I wonder what could be the problem with the old one….may be not reading the correct pressure?

Oh, okay. Well in my experience the gauge on the K12 cylinder is about the same as that on the K10; reading about 20bar high as compared to the gauge on my FX pump. I fill to 250bar with the pump, then bleed off moisture briefly, which leaves about 230bar showing on the pump but 250 on the cylinder. Not a big deal, just about what I'd expect from a simple linear pressure gauge like that.

well, what's the point in chaining it then?
The guy didn't tell.

therider wrote:well, what's the point in chaining it then?
The guy didn't tell.

Chaining? Sorry, I'm not following. EDIT - oh, 'changing' not chaining. I have no clue. But to add so much at the front it seems reasonable to assume there was a need... which makes me wonder if there might be a recall notice for older K12 cylinders.

sorry for the spelling mistake.

mmm, yes…. a bit scaring… Do not load up to 250! :-)

I was just kidding…. there cannot be any safety issue.

I am quite sure it must be related to the accuracy of the gauge, or a malfunction of the gauge.

If I recall correctly the safety factor on the cylinders is 4 or 5.

However, I remember that Cesare Morini once told me that when he built the first air pistol he tested the cylinders and at 1000bar they just started leaking.

This is very reasonable.
In my lab have a lot of apparatuses which I have designed and built which work at 200bar. I guess that the o-ring is placed in a grove either in the inside of the cylinder, or on the side of the "plug" of the gauge. I do not believe that there is sufficient room for an o-ring in a flat surface.

Therefore, assuming that the o-ring has been correctly installed, without damages, if the pressure is too high the diameter of the cylinder increases and the o-ring is decompressed, causing a leak. Actually if the o-ring is on the lateral surface of the cylinder, then the leak will also shear the o-ring.

As there is nothing to be propelled by that leak, i cannot see any real safety issue with overcharging.

Gerard wrote:Rule 8.13?

Hi Gerald
The 8.12 PISTOL SPECIFICATION TABLE and 8.13 PISTOL CONFIGURATION DRAWING are rules. Despite it´s names.

Just see rule 8.4.3.5
8.4.3.5 10m Air Pistol
Any 4.5 mm (.177 cal.) compressed air, CO2 or pneumatic air
pistol that conforms to the PISTOL SPECIFICATION TABLE and
PISTOL CONFIGURATION DRAWING may be used.

It refers to that table and drawings for details of the pistols allowed. Same as with the 25m and 50m pistols.

Basically you can use any pistol that conforms with these two rules, 8.12 and 8.13

Hope this helps.

2014 type filled weight about 256 g
2013 type filled weight about 206 g
Kid type filled weight about 146 g
k12 without cylinder weight about 800 g