TargetTalk

I just bought a benelli kite from Larrys guns a few weeks ago.
First when there is a problem you never talk to Larry-He is always away or whatever.
The gun was supposedly new but the cylinder dates are 2009-2019
and 2012- 2022. Why wouldn't I get new or current ones. Well I still have not talked to him and I opened a dispute with Discover card who said they will open a dispute.
Now I just want to send the gun back and get refunded but they want to charge $260 restocking fee.
Their reply to me is the gun is brand spanking new and that is the way it came from benelli-the cylinders are new. You always talk to someone else-never Larry.
Well I want to sell and who wants to buy with cylinders this old. I would keep it if he changed the cylinders to current date
robinhoods
Good Lord you can't even buy a new gun without a hassle-they still try to stick you

robinhoods

I have bought 4 guns from Larry in the past 3 years. I have never had anything but great service.

Every time I call with a question Deanna or Amanda are ready to help.

I'd never hesitate to buy a gun from him.

S

Ok that's you
What do you do think I am lying.I have the gun and the receipt and the pics.
Lets throw a party-what has that got to do with me. Gee maybe he will give you a discount for sticking up for him.
Hey there were people who said the son of sam was a good quiet neighbor.
robinhoods

I bought my Hammerli 106 from him personally, we chatted in the shop while the paperwork was going through. My interpretation of "new" is that it had never before been sold to a customer. Now that it's been sold, they'd probably have to sell it as "used", and take a loss.

I would expect both cylinders to be dated 2012. I'd be po'd about that too, I doubt Benelli would have packaged it with two different cylinder dates (bad business). I'd try to call Benelli and talk to someone in sales and ask if this is a common practice. Perhaps the Mfg. will trade your cylinder out. The 2012 date is reasonable to me, it may have sat in his shop or stock that long.

I would expect both cylinders to be dated 2012. I'd be po'd about that too, I doubt Benelli would have packaged it with two different cylinder dates (bad business). The 2012 date is reasonable to me, t may have sat in his shop that long.

Invictus87 wrote:I bought my Hammerli 106 from him personally, we chatted in the shop while the paperwork was going through. My interpretation of "new" is that it had never before been sold to a customer. Now that it's been sold, they'd probably have to sell it as "used", and take a loss.

I would have to agree with robinhoods. Air cylinders are suspect and may be disqualified after 10 years. I would expect a discount of 10% of the cost of a new cylinder for each year prior to 2014. With cylinders having a born on date and an expiration, they are more like cars (you would not expect to pay the same price for last years model after the current year is on the lot).

Yes, the gun is new, but the cylinders loose their value the year after they are made. Especially the one that is 5 years old has already lost half of its life span. If I was buying a new airgun with dated cylinders, I would have expected them to disclose the old dates before the sale. I just bought a new air pistol from another vendor and both cylinders were dated 2014.

We have been pro-rating cylinders 10% for each year off of current one for several years now. ie, its now 2014 so a 2012 cylinder would receive 20% off from the retail cylinder price. a $250 minus 20% = $50 off the price of the gun. As far as I know all dealers were/are doing something similar.

I was having the same experience in Germany. They let people try the guns in the shop, then cylinders get mixed up. I pretended to get 2 cylinders with the same date, and not older than a few months. So they took the cylinders from a pistol which had just been delivered and gave them to me. Somebody less careful has the mixed cylinders now! :-)

Hi Robinhood,

I had a worse problem with Larry. I bought a used Hammerli free pistol that was described to me over the phone as being fully functional, 95% condition metal, with rough wood. Since I planned to fit all new wood anyways, this seemed to fit my needs. What I got was a rusted hunk of junk. The metal all under the wood was rusted and in many places very deeply pitted. Even with a reblue you'd never get the pits out. The rear sight was completely seized up. It wouldn't adjust for windage or elevation. Every single screw slot was buggered up. Much of the exterior bluing was touched up with cold blue. You could easily smell it, so I know it was only recently done.
I made many calls and never once got to talk to Larry. Finally, I had to file a fraud report with my credit card company to get them to accept the return. But I was stuck paying the money spent on shipping both ways, plus the FFL fee from my dealer. I strongly argued for a full refund given the deceptiveness of the description.
I debated posting my problem when it happened, hopefully to forewarn others. But, I felt it would sound like sour grapes. Now, hearing your similar problem, I wish I had.
I'll never buy from Larry Carter ever again!

Best wishes in resolving your unfortunate situation.
Jim

Well I see I am not the only one and there are probably others.
I am not here to hang Larry but just to warn others what to look for.
would I buy from him again-NO-Tell me he does not know about cylinder dates.
They are important-not only for people shooting ISSF but for resale value.

This situation is not unique. Another dealer with whom I spoke stopped offering a line because he was getting pistols with years out of date cylinders and no satisfaction from the mother ship. The details will remain nameless to protect the parties.

Good on our host for pro-rating older cylinders. As to Larry Carter, he responds far more reasonably to speaking softly than he does to a big stick. Unless you can prove fraud on his part - selling a used Kite as new - you may want to try a gentler tone. If it isn't already too late for that.

If one steps back a few paces, this case is a far more an indictment of that silly (true feelings not fit for a public forum) 10-year cylinder rule than it is of Larry Carter.

What do you mean prove.
Go to products he has a list of used guns
these are new go to the list and look at benelli-there is the gun.
Not under used-He posts that he is the biggest importer of guns in the USA from benelli. OK-How about if he he sold you a gun with cylinders that said 2005.
How would you feel about that-Try and sell the gun with that date on the cylinder. or yet both cylinders.-I can see you are missing the point here.
It has something to do with integrity and people running to his aid does not give him any.
How long can you drag something on-it has to end and I went to the credit card and filed a complaint.
I aready had discussions with his help to no avail.
anyway I am done with this topic-$250 is not the point-it is for other people interested in getting a benelli-I'm just saying watch out.
You want to do more business with him and he has done right by you then Bravo for you.
Robinhoods

I'm not commenting directly on the original complaint here, nor am I defending Larry with my comments. However, the 10-year rule and the manufacturers have put retailers in a near-impossible position. If they want to sell APs, they need to have cylinders in stock. But as soon as they take shipment of a cylinder, its value starts rapidly declining, while the retailer has no idea when it's actually going to sell - possibly several years down the road. This creates a strong incentive for dealers to stock only the most popular APs, cutting down on buyer choice.

Meanwhile, the buyers clamor to get the latest most up-to-date cylinders, putting the retailer in the position of losing the whole sale if he doesn't comply. As a result it's going to be the most vocal and obnoxious buyers who get what they want, at the expense of the more polite ones. Everybody ends up feeling bad except the large manufacturers and the ISSF lawyers (or whoever came up with the rule).

The irrationality of the rule has been discussed at great length previously, with emphasis on the unnecessary costs involved. But there is a significant element of bad feeling created by this rule as well. And, as a number of us have said before, the alleged "safety" gains from this rule are unconvincing.

Ok I see where you are coming from but do you think I would have bought the gun if he said upfront the the cylinder was 5 yrs old.
No way.
I'm sending the gun in monday-the gun is beautiful and I like how it fits in my hand the best-even better than the morini.
The only edge the morini has to me is the trigger but the real gun of the three which seems to me a novice in this field is the Steyr by far. IT seems to be so much better made and solid.Smooth loading action with a nice smooth click when loading and my shot does not deflect up as much but I am a beginner at this shooting. I'm reading pilkuns posts on shooting.
robinhoods

Did you inform the factory in Italy of this behaviour? The should be, in my opinion.

Yew-I sent an email about everything.
robinhoods

My 2c - my experience with Larrys Guns has been overwhelmingly positive and would not hesitate to deal with them again.

Leon
Your 2C is good and good for you.
I have been blessed all my life.-I could throw those guns in the river but there are others out there who love the sport and maybe can't afford a Steyr LP-10E but maybe a Benelli Kite. He will save up some bucks and go buy one and this could happen to him.
Sure his gun is good for awhile but .
not for long or if he wants to trade up in a year or two.He will take a beating especially on the one that is 5 yrs old when he bought it.
robinhoods-Hey it's not the end of the world but goodluck to you in the future.
I'm more worried right now why I know my front sight is dead center when all the slack is gone from the trigger yet when it is pulled and the pellet leaves the barrel I am up or off to the right by an inch or more.
Makes me mad.

This is one of the reasons I keep shooting my crosman skanaker. Everyone rushed to the new compressed air guns. Now they are seeing the flip side.