TargetTalk

The latest delivery of LP400 do not have anymore the additional 'paper clip' shaped spring in the trigger. Any comment?

Worse than Sony cameras. Obsolete the moment you walk out of the store.

Tycho wrote:Worse than Sony cameras. Obsolete the moment you walk out of the store.

Worse that Sony cameras are the Sony manuals! :-) I once got mad with the manual of a DVD player and i through it in the bin!

Mine has no paperclip and is supposed to be latest.

Trigger has adjusted up quite nicely though.

It was without, then they modified and added the clip, now they have removed it.
I went yesterday to buy it as a second pistol, but after seeing this I changed mind. I think I will take a k12 as a second lupi.

maybe in the Walther manual there is a small print indicating that "specifications are subject to change without notice"...

For sure.... But it does not look good if you cannot make up your mind, does it?

This change happened about October last year.

See the 4th post
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=40371

Manufactures always evolve designs over time.

I have a similar mod to my LP400

The origional LP400 had the "paper clip spring fitted", it was removed and the different sear spring p/n 148 (2802261) fitted by revision H dated 12/9/13.
The previous revisions A thru E revolve around the valve/seal assy.

If this had been Matchguns, 1'000 guys would burn them in public. As it's only Walther doing their testing in public, it's only worth a shrug. Still, compared to the SSP, which was developed for three years specifically for RF and all that it could do well was losing its rear sight during a match, that LP400 looks pretty solid.

tycho from the exploding drawings of lp400 and ap40 it looks like the lp400 is an evolution of ap40 regarding trigger mechanism in my humble opinion.
parts are not interchangeable but general arrangement looks the same.
some fellow shooters here in my country bought it, then changed to lp10e. others still use the lp400 with good results

Tycho wrote:If this had been Matchguns, 1'000 guys would burn them in public.

At first you would have to find these 1.000 guys owning a Matchguns AP ;)

We really read the comments in the discussion boards world wide, and also listen to what the Walther shooters tell the Sportservice people at the major competitions. Maybe this hasn't been the case for some years, okay.

But we still have to sort the real critics, complaints and also helpful suggestions to improve some details from the wannabe's and "My neighbour's friend has heard of someone, who had problems with..." -people.

In the last months since the trigger discussions started (here in TT) we have done maintenance to a lot of LP400, and also sent some dozens of springs around the world. All the recipients were happy and satisfied with the improvement, as far as we know.

But despite of the "Subject to technical modifications" phrase in the manual a lot of people seem to think, that Walther has to constantly update their guns to the latest version. We do in most of the cases, but we don't have to. And that's a general rule of life: a lot of products are improved from time to time, and often without changing the model number or adding a suffix.

Those buyers, who get the gun today, are lucky. Those who have bought one recently (or more than 3 years ago, when the LP400 was introduced) will contact their dealers or our company to argue about updating their LP for free or for a small fee, to cover transport costs or other small repairs. But I truly believe, that this would be the same with any other manufacturer.

And Tycho, I could tell you a lot of really terrible stories about all other manufacturers and most of their top-guns on the market, which I heard in my 25 years as editor - I won't do in detail. But some malfunctions with rapid fire pistols have also occurred to other manufacturers, some parts broke on other occasions - so what. Shit happens. And there will always be some unknown shooter from one far away island who hasn't heard of all these rumours. So he simply takes his old rifle, which is fixed together with duct tape and has a very rough trigger, hits ten after ten and becomes champion - that's shooting!

almost all manufacturers had problems with their products (pardini matchguns, walther etc). i am sure there more than 1000 matchgun air pistols around the world but i think Tycho referred to the 1000 critics of matchguns pistols (specifically mg2) in this forum.
I agree with Ulrich that Walther has better support nowadays (very good support at least at the world cups) and is listening and upgrading their pistols. my only suggestion is to have them stock parts for products not on current catalogue because not everyone can change pistols every 5-6 years.

Ulrich Eichstädt wrote: At first you would have to find these 1.000 guys owning a Matchguns AP ;)

How very much true!

Of course, if German shooters were not disguised by German magazines in believing that the only pistols, apart from LP10E, capable of winning London Olympics were Tesro PA10(!!!), Hämmerli AP40 (!!!!!!), Walther LP300, Walther LP400 and FWB44, may be somebody would also buy a Morini (ever heard about it?), Pardini (ever heard about it? ahh....it won silver in London??? ) or a MatchGuns.

And, if you don't quote me (we're here alone, I assume :) ) I'm a fan of Cesare Morinis guns, and I have reviewed and shot a lot of them over the years.

So my guess with the 1000 owners was more a joke, I have no idea at all how many there are in the world, apart from the assumption that it's less than the other manufacturers (which is again no clue to the quality).

not everyone can change pistols every 5-6 years.

We're already working on that problem...
We are surely not into "just in time"-production with only a limited number of parts, and we have a lot of spare parts for older guns in stock, but from time to time also these "reservoirs" run empty. Sometimes a dealer buys all the spare parts left for a certain model (or model family) and for a lot of the pre-1990 guns all spare parts, prototypes etc. have been thrown away (grrrr... :( ) by the former owners. And it might be easier to find those parts on the german market.

it is very good news.. hopefully in the future you will be able not only produce spare parts on demand but also reproduce parts for older pistols.
(hammerli parts come to mind, some ksp parts etc).

therider wrote:Pardini (ever heard about it? ahh....it won silver in London??? )

Hm, TheRider, according to my lists the silver medal in London was won by Luco Tesconi, not by someone named "Pardini"...
(and between 2008 and 2013 I could only find two other final participations of him, at 8th place each)

It's not the gun that guarantees a victory: The actual european champion Oleh Omelchuk used a Walther LP300, not a 400 (it's okay for us). The actual female champion in Moskow shot with a Pardini - so being a coach and a pistol shooter myself I dare to say, that the top-shooters of the world are able to use any high-quality brand, if they had the chance to adopt those guns to their needs. Agree?

My job as author of many airgun reviews for VISIER magazine has ended in 2013. But if I remember it correctly, I have already answered the question here on TT, why VISIER (or me as responsible editor-in-chief) had chosen this and not that pistol for that review you are certainly referring to: It was simply choosing designs from the 21st century. The Pardini K12 wasn't available for the first test and was reviewed one or two month/issues later. The Morini CM 162 has been reviewed several times in the 1990's and has not been changed over the years despite of a lot of technical developments (adjustable grip-angle, rear sights) - and to go back to my actual job for Walther: The Walther GSP in .22 l.r. would surely be capable to achieve high results at 25 meters, but it is outdated and no longer "state of the art".

And from a journalist's point of view, trying to attract as many readers as possible, I would always decide (and have decided back then) to choose the most actual, newest, never before reviewed guns for a comparison review, no "oldies but goldies", even if top-shooters will win medals with them still from time to time. But: Shooters win, not the guns...

just my 2 cents: I don't think it's about the quality of a shooter ( still seeing some people score between 370- and 380 with their fwb 65), nor the actuality/quality of pistol designs ( if this were true nobody would shot the morini anymore), it's simply about releasing an unfinished product. i think the lp400 is a very clever design in some points( absorber, rear sight and many more). but why didn't walther just wait with the release 'til they got it right in the first place? now you have discussions like this which take on walther's reputation, and i never heard complaints on the lg400, not even from the beginning. if it's mainly about marketing, as i was told by a Walther salesman in a store some time ago, then this might be okay from a business point of view, but i feel unpleasently remembered to some software companies in the early nineties...

again, just my 2 cents

flolo wrote:why didn't walther just wait with the release 'til they got it right in the first place?

Nice idea. Especially when, in 2010 as the LP400 and LG400 were launched, there was a World Championship on "home ground" in Munich. And every top shooter (= a lot of possible customers) prepared already for the next (2012) Olympics. Nobody changes his equipment in the year of the competition. So as manufacturer you have to be out with a new gun or wait another four years (or til the next WC in Germany in 21XX...)

Every member of the design team and the marketing people were convinced at the introduction, that both new guns were top (I guess that, because I haven't been in the company at that time). Noone with his 1000something brain cells in place would introduce a new pistol, being aware that there would be already a build-in problem. And there have been many pre-production rifles and pistols on the market in the hands of top-level-shooters, and a lot of research and collecting shooters/testers opinions has been done.

Most of the complaints we read in the internet seem to me like a kind of "self fullfilling prophecy": someone searches in the web for info about a cure for headaches, and a lot of readers suddenly feel these specific headaches, too. It's a common psychological phenomenon (but: if you're paranoid, that doesn't mean that they are not hunting you...)

I'm out here at this point, leaving for a week (holidays) - I'm convinced, that everybody who has a problem with his Walther guns will receive help. Not necessarily via Target Talk or other discussion boards, but you know where we are. Since 1886 (or in Ulm since 1953).

Love my LP300 ... but the trigger was so unreliable! I have three different trigger units ... and they've all let me down. But the feel of the pistol and trigger is wonderful ... imo