TargetTalk

My personal AP Trigger rating list

1. Pardini K12 9/10
2. Morini EI162 8/10
3. Steyr LP10E 7/10
4. Pardini K10 6/10
5. Steyr LP10 5/10
6. Walther LP400 4/10

Share your list!

1: Steyr LP10E
2: Feinwerkbau P44
3: Hämmerli AP40
4: Walther LP400
5: Steyr LP10

From the AP i own (or owned)

1. Matchguns Mg1e (9/10) current ap
2. Morini 162E (15V) (9/10) current spare ap
3. Steyr LP10 mech with ball bearing (8/10) (fellow shooter gun)
4. IZH-46 (when properly cleaned) (7.5/10) first ap and still with me
5. Walther LP300 (7.5/10) (sold)
6. Feinwerkbau P34 (7/10) (club gun)
7. Steyr LP10 mech no ball bearing (7/10) second ap
8. IZH-46 (dirty) (6/10)

i also have shot but only for a couple of shoots so not in the list but
if i had to grade them
hammerli 480k (club gun) maybe a 7.5
lp400 (fellow shooter) id say 8

1. Pardini k12 9.2/10
2. Match guns mg1e and mgh1 9/10
3. Pardini k2s 8.8/10
4. Morini 162ei 8.8/10
5. Steyr lp10e 7/10
6. Steyr lp10 (ball bearing) 6/10
7. Walther lp400 4/10

FWB P44
MatchGuns MG1
Steyr LP 10 ball bearing
- - - - -
Less favorable, according to my experience:
Morini M162
Walther 400

Sorry for being ignorant...but how do you rate them and base on what criteria?

conradin wrote:Sorry for being ignorant...but how do you rate them and base on what criteria?

1. I like trigger or not
2. more or less trigger errors I do with it
3. can I control trigger or not, how predictable trigger, can I trust it or not

I can write many factors or criteria
but i think it's basically unconscious. So at the end you like trigger or not.

1. Walther LP400 after a little bit of work
2. Morini 162EI
3. Steyr LP10 with bearing

Does anyone have any views of the Matchguns electronic vs mechanical trigger or the newer hybrid version

Inspired by the recent request

1: matchguns MGH1 9.5/10
2: pardini k12 9.5/10
3: Morini 162 ei. 9.0/10
4: Steyr Lp10 8.0/10 (only one felt so good, set up by a top international shooter)
5: steyr LP10E 7.8/10

Avery wrote:

conradin wrote:Sorry for being ignorant...but how do you rate them and base on what criteria?

1. I like trigger or not
2. more or less trigger errors I do with it
3. can I control trigger or not, how predictable trigger, can I trust it or not

I can write many factors or criteria
but i think it's basically unconscious. So at the end you like trigger or not.

I would summarize Avery's comments as:
The trigger becomes part of my finger which becomes part of my unconscious brain.

By that standard, the closest I've been able to come in an AP trigger was a SAM M10.

william wrote:

Avery wrote:

conradin wrote:Sorry for being ignorant...but how do you rate them and base on what criteria?

1. I like trigger or not
2. more or less trigger errors I do with it
3. can I control trigger or not, how predictable trigger, can I trust it or not

I can write many factors or criteria
but i think it's basically unconscious. So at the end you like trigger or not.

I would summarize Avery's comments as:
The trigger becomes part of my finger which becomes part of my unconscious brain.

By that standard, the closest I've been able to come in an AP trigger was a SAM M10.

Given that criteria - all the above with enough trigger time.

Sometimes what you like doesn't translate into good scores. As per Smiles post it's about it becoming part of your unconscious brain or what I like to call "spinal".

- Dave

Trigger ratings should be on
1 adjustability to fit finger position
2 adjustibility of sears, weights, stages, point, letoff and overtravel.
3 ability to lock and hold a setting over time with no change of feel.

Are we not missing some important features?

Visier test use a displacement controlled test. They apply a displacement and measure the load reaction in the springs.
We can used their graphs for futprther discussion.

As it appears from the test results they publish, some trigger exhibit a load reduction at the release. That means that our finger will dynamically move at that point (There is a sudden reduction of trigger reaction to the force applied by our thinger), causing an error.
In my opinion a good trigger should not have such a behaviour.

What about crispness? I guess that this would translate in the Visier graphs, as a second stage characterised by a vertical (or very steep) line, so that very little movement is required to attain the release load.

Using the April 2012 issue entitled "Alone against the five" which has been thoroughly discussed and criticised in here (WHICH FIVE???????!), the FWB trigger is very good, the LP10E feels like a chewing gum (which is exactly what I don't like ), the Walther lp300 gives that sudden reaction reduction whic inevitably causes dynamic movement unless your in brain built data acquisition card reads data a crazy speed :-)

Trigger ratings should be on
1 adjustability to fit finger position
2 adjustibility of sears, weights, stages, point, letoff and overtravel.
3 ability to lock and hold a setting over time with no change of feel.

In the real world these three points would have to top any list.

David M wrote:Trigger ratings should be on
1 adjustability to fit finger position
2 adjustibility of sears, weights, stages, point, letoff and overtravel.
3 ability to lock and hold a setting over time with no change of feel.

You nailed it with number 3 being the key (consistency), beyond this it is completely personal preference. Just as in bullseye some people shoot a crisp trigger and some shoot a trigger with either a long, medium, or short roll. Zins the bullseye 12 time National Champion uses an extremely long roll, but that doesn't work for everyone.

- Dave

Unless trigger parameters ( 1st stage weight & travel, 2nd Stage weight & travel, trigger stop and trigger position ) are set the same between different pistols, I don't think the lists give us any valid data. Band "A" could be adjusted to my preference, while brand "B" is not, but could be. I would venture a guess that the majority of shooters don't really fully understand the adjustments on their triggers or even adjust them.
Gort

Gort wrote:Unless trigger parameters ( 1st stage weight & travel, 2nd Stage weight & travel, trigger stop and trigger position ) are set the same between different pistols, I don't think the lists give us any valid data. Band "A" could be adjusted to my preference, while brand "B" is not, but could be. I would venture a guess that the majority of shooters don't really fully understand the adjustments on their triggers or even adjust them.
Gort

Absence of valid data is what this and all such threads are about. It's personal preference as the original poster stated. No more no less. The problem with Visier is that they try to express their personal preferences as objective fact. And you can bet your last Pfennig on their winner in any given category coming from a German-speaking producer.

I've changed my mind about LP400 trigger since my earlier post. Put Morini 162EI in first place.

I think the trouble between any sort of pure scientific analysis is to get a machine tester to interact with a trigger in the same fashion as a human hand does.

I'm sure that most will concede that each pistol is a little bit different to shoot; ergo the difficulty would arise to get a machine to pull a trigger for each case.

I am convinced that such a discussion is reasonably moot anyway. Past a certain point it's not really about the gun itself, but rather the human interaction with the Gun.

Much of the above evidence is anecdotal, and therefore it should be taken all with a pinch of salt.