TargetTalk

Missouri once again got beat out by Texas. Congratulations to all shooters.

4-H Nationals is still using the scoring system that penalizes outstanding shooters (a Texas originated system) ... even in the individual events they use a "modified" percentage system to keep the superb shooters from getting too far in front.

Seems they do the same for Overall. Hypothetically, your state could sweep the Nationals in every event but one - you didn't have enough kids to field one team event and would be prevented from taking First place or much less any place in State rankings. The state overall now leans towards who has the largest shooting sports programs, not who has the highest quality shooters. Never thought that was right or agreed with it. Always wanted to know who came up with that rule and what the justification was for it. Anyone ????

This type of scoring was instituted by Texas the first time they hosted the Nationals (10 or so years ago??).
Many of the Texas 4-H matches are run this way.
It is supposed to increase the "fairness".

In my mind it only keeps the very exceptional shooters from getting too far in front of the rest.
i.e. ... to my mind this reduces the 4-H motto to:
"Make the best like the rest"

This is going to take a slight tangent based on they last posting.

Sitting in the coaches wrap up meeting for Air Rifle it was entertaining to see the split between those that see Nationals as a "4-H" event and those that shoot competitive and want to move in that direction. We were fortunate(?) enough to have a National Board member with us, and when the subject of shooting Air Rifle Finals was brought up you could see his eyes gloss over. We got the 5 minute speech on the pyramid of learning in 4-H and that their goal is to develop the base. Nevermind the fact that this was at the National Competition which should be the pinnacle of 4-H shooter..in theory.

What I took out of it was that the NAtional 4-H Shoot will always be a family oriented fun shoot, and will never evolve into something more competitive. Boil it down to Joels motto. Not that it is a bad thing, there is USAS, CMP, NRA, etc etc for those who pursue competitive goals and the NAtional 4-H Board knows it. Just people need to understand that and they will have a much more enjoyable time instead of getting flustered. IMHO its a shame that they dont put more of a competitive edge into it, especially if they are going to be using all megalink electronics (under review) in the future, but then again you dont get a real competition sampling with the "you only go once" rule either. However to that end, Ms Perez had a well deserved Offhand win, and I know she works hard and trains hard and is well deserving of that win and I dont mean to belittle any of those accomplishments.

Heck I would just be happy if my State actually shot per NAtional 4-H rules....but that is an entirely different discussion! Damn those little chicken silhouettes!

Can someone explain how the scoring system hurts or helps the shooters?
Can you show the math or show an example of a shooter's raw score placing higher or lower than the %? I need a definable position.

It's not a function of a "raw" or adjusted % moving a shooter around in the order for one event, it is the fact that the difference between the shooters "adjusted" percentages REDUCES the difference between them.
(Fine if you want to "Make the Best like the rest" instead of rewarding those who train hard for an event)

Not an issue in an individual event, but in the combined events scores where this can "adjust" the overall order around.

The only way to see for yourself is to take an event (like smallbore rifle) and crank the numbers yourself.

I have been cranking the numbers in air. Not sure what I found. Using total points really changes the order. I an not sure using total points is fair. In air rifle the shooters shoot a 3x20 3P (600pts), 40 shot standing (400pts), 40 shot silhouette (40pts). If everyday was worth the same points, using total points would be the best. What is a fair way to compare a 40 point silhouette shoot to a 600 point 3P? I still need to run more numbers.

Perry_w wrote:I have been cranking the numbers in air. Not sure what I found. Using total points really changes the order. I an not sure using total points is fair. In air rifle the shooters shoot a 3x20 3P (600pts), 40 shot standing (400pts), 40 shot silhouette (40pts). If everyday was worth the same points, using total points would be the best. What is a fair way to compare a 40 point silhouette shoot to a 600 point 3P? I still need to run more numbers.

No ... you are correct, total points is not fair .... use a perceentage of total points to make every day the same. i.e. divide fired score divided by total possible score.

I used that in my spread sheet. 2nd& 3rd would have swapped from the way 4H did the numbers.