TargetTalk

Can anyone rate the relative "loudness" of the top air pistols - Steyr, Morini, Walther, FWB? Are compacts louder than full-size? What about a Walther LP400 Aluminum vs Carbon?

I shoot my air rifles and pistols in my backyard with no problem disturbing the neighbors. But the guns I shoot all have baffling to quiet the sound -- it is very effective. In thinking about choosing a competition air pistol to purchase, and thinking about my neighbors, loudness has become a consideration.

I know the top pistols are designed for accuracy. Is there anything in the design that helps in quieting the sound? Is there any particular competition air pistol that is recognized as quieter than others?

Do you think it would be OK to shoot a P44, LP10, LP400, etc. outdoors (backyard) without fear of raising any eyebrows?

The only sound that bothers people seemed to be the sound created by the pellets hitting objects (target box, etc).

Box o' wine....oops...rags.

The *CRACK* of a ~500fps PCP air pistol is considerable, compared to a suppressed air rifle. That's my guess anyway. If you're considering adding 'baffling' to suppress your PCP pistol, I'd suggest eliminating from your shopping consideration any AP with holes in the top of the barrel. My Pardini K10, for instance, has 3 holes along the barrel top. A lot of air comes from these, and with it a lot of noise. The most success I've had in damping this noise for home practice has been with the use of a carpet and foam tube with a slot cut in the near end bottom, into which I can raise the pistol for the shot. It's about 10" diameter, 2.5' long, and the muzzle comes within a couple of inches of the front of the slot. The ~6" hole through it gives me plenty of room to see my target and when focused on that I don't really notice the tube. Helps keep things friendly with my neighbours when I shoot at quieter times of day. During busy weekdays with traffic and kids and garden noises and such no one really notices... but I shoot from inside the house to a trap on the porch. I would expect even with the carpet tube that my neighbours would get pretty freaked out by the sound of the pistol if fired outside.

As for the trap; I shoot at a steel plate on a downward angle with putty in the base, putty on the back of the steel, cardboard and carpet taped in layers over that, and the whole trap (barely bigger than a 10m AP target) mounted on a 'sled' with a long pull stick in the back of a 4' expanded PVC tube. I soap the runners to make it easy and quiet to slide out and swap targets. The back end of the tube is 1" plywood with carpet over it, and there's a 3 layer clear plastic window above the paper for natural lighting. More than 90% of pellet impact noise is absorbed inside this tube. I clean the thing every few tins, and can shoot into it in daylight year-round. I use a thick plywood baffle with a square cutout in the bathroom window such that if I miss the paper (hasn't happened yet, but hey, I might get the hiccups someday or have a stroke or something) I'll hit plywood inside the house, so no danger of missing the tube and shooting a neighbour across the alley unless I step to one side and deliberately shoot at a window. I figure so long as I keep to noisier times and have these measures in place, no one needs to know I'm shooting in the city... except you guys.

Thanks Gerard. I also have a silent pellet trap that I built and filled with duct seal. Targets can be suspended in front and all the impact noise is eliminated.

At this point I haven't considered doing anything in particular to dampen the sound of the pistol... just trying to determine if any particular pistol is considered quieter and less likely to offend any of my neighbors.

So far, I have never had a complaint with the rifles and pistols I already shoot (and some of those are PCP at 1000 fps!) But your characterizing the sound as a "CRACK" makes me think the competition pistols are likely louder. Anyone know if there is a noticeable difference in the loudness between the different makes?

Shooting next to Zurek with his Morini....extremely quiet; so much so that I asked if his gun was OK. Backstop noise was worse.

FWB 65s are very quiet, if you're looking for something inexpensive.

I've found after months of training indoors, the sound of my Morini 162ei is really, really quiet when outdoors. The Morini is one of the last top level guns to not adopt the top of the barrel porting.

Do a quick search on the basics of sound supressors and you'll find there are three major noise generators from a weapon;
#1 Action / blowback noise
#2 Propellant expansion as it leaves the barrel
#3 Projectile breaking the speed of sound

With a target air pistol (roughly 500fps) there's absolutely no way you're going to get the "crack" sound of a rifle or any super-sonic weapon. The action on an AP doesn't open when a round is fired so there's no noise there and the expansion of the propellant gas isn't enough to bother a bad neighbor. I use a duct seal pellet trap and there's little to no noise from the target/trap. The Morini compensator is very well ported to spread out the noise of the expanding gas as it leaves the barrel. Quite honestly, I don't think there is anything else you can shoot that's as quiet as a modern PCP air pistol or rifle. Even a compound bow makes about as much noise as an air pistol so I wouldn't worry about it at all. If your neighbor is an anti-gun nut, then you might have problems. Other than that, I don't think you'll find it to be too loud for anyone except the neighborhood squires (they seem to hate mine).

My 0.02 worth

Shooting an LP10 outdoors is extremely quiet at normal pellet speeds. (However, as the speed increases, so does the report. If the speed of the pellet gets up to around 590 fps, it sounds more like a .22 short.)

The only thing I have heard that is quieter outside is a fully shrouded Daystate and my friends Morini which is shooting about 450 fps.

Compact Steyr lp2 seem very loud (never noticed if compact Morinis, or Lp10s, etc are any different to the full size ones) Walthers seem very quiet - not noticed any other significant differences.

For a backstop - old carpet or anything absorbant is much better than anything solid.

I have Steyr lp10, Morini 162 and Walther lp400 Alu,
So at the same velocity lp400 Alu the most quiet. I think because lp400 has barrel without ports. Plus it has barrel shroud so pressured air goes under the shroud. May be it helps suppress the sound.

At the same velocity compacts are louder then full size pistol. Because long barrel give more velocity at the same amount pressured air.

I have an older LP5. The difference between shooting it indoors and outdoors is night and day in terms of loudness.

Indoors it's LOUD! But, as a previous poster observed, I think most of the sound comes from the pellet hitting the backstop.

I had a buddy over one time and we did a bit of shooting in the back yard. He's an experienced gunsmith and (a non-airpistol) shooter. After a couple of rounds, he asked if the pistol was working properly because it was so quiet!

Here ya go!:

http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show ... rOfPages=6

dogloose wrote: Do you think it would be OK to shoot a P44, LP10, LP400, etc. outdoors (backyard) without fear of raising any eyebrows?

For California, at least in Alameda county, even BB Gun is a felony if you shoot it and hurt someone, or brandishing, etc etc. Go figure. If your neighbor saw you shooting at the backyard and for whatever reason feels that he or she is in danger, that's a potential felony.

In a recent indoor 10m competition I was able to descern the difference between my CO2 FWB Mod. 2 Kurtz (adjusted at full power), and a host of other models as far as I can remember.

The competitors were using PCPs like the LP10, Benelli, LP300 and LP400 ALU.

The quietest was the Walther LP400 ALU hands down.

Then came mine and then the LP10, the LP300 and finally the Benelli was the loudest.

Other quiet ones were the FWB C20 (CO2) and the Izzy MP-46M SSP pistol.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for that first hand (first-ear?) account. Your opinion of relative loudness is very helpful and exactly what I was hoping for. I've considered the Walther as a candidate and this additional report further solidifies its place on the list. I appreciate your input.

Happy to be of help.

Please let us know how it performs if you acquire it.

Kindly.

All very nice, but not enough difference between guns to wet yourself over.

Buy the one you want, get a quiet backstop and go from there.

My IZH 46M is quiet enough that my wife can watch TV in another room at the same time I'm shooting from the kitchen into the garage. I recently picked up a K12 Junior (short barrel) and it's way to loud to use when she is home. I'd love to find something as light and accurate as that K12J and as quiet as the IZH.

You could try dialing down the velocity and see if that satisfies your noise requirements. If you take off the grip, you'll find a tiny set screw at the back of the frame just around the corner from a large slot-headed bolt. That set screw locks the slot-headed bolt to prevent it working loose and changing velocities. Loosen the set screw, then unscrew the slotted bolt half a turn and test fire the pistol with a pellet. Should be quieter. If it's not quiet enough, unscrew it another half turn and test again. Try to find the velocity setting at which you can tolerate the noise level. Then lock the set screw and put the grip back on and do some target shooting. Check if your groups have opened up at all. Of course they will be lower, but you're checking for group size, not position at this point. If after 30 or 40 shots you find the group sizes comparable to what you were getting with the faster velocity setting, adjust your sights to bring your point of impact back up to centre and shoot like this for a few days, see how you like it.

Many AP shooters shoot at excessively high velocity. All you really need is enough speed to punch clean holes in target paper. Any extra speed is wasted air and excess noise. Or course there is the 'barrel time' argument, but the difference in time the pellet spends in the barrel between 460fps and 550fps in a K12 barrel is probably so small that it's not worth considering. But of course leave it to your personal testing to be certain. And you can always unlock and dial the speed back up if it worked better for you when shooting faster and louder.

A recoil absorber adjustment may be required after you settle on a different velocity. If so, use the tiny set screw above the O-ring on the transfer port. Adjusting that screw tighter makes the aperture smaller, allowing less air to push back during the shot, making for less recoil compensation from the tungsten weight behind the port (the thing one sometimes hears going 'clunk' as it resets between shots, while handling the pistol). Adjusting it looser, counter-clockwise, opens the small port and allows for more recoil compensation such as one would need at higher velocities. Play with this gap until you feel minimal or no recoil.