TargetTalk

Hey gents, I know this is a loaded question but, I want to get your thoughts on this topic! Maybe I can learn something from you all and get a very nice target gun as well!!!

I am in the market for a new target pistol. I have owned a few decent .22LR's in the past but, I was never 100% satisfied with them. I have gone through a Buckmark, a Ruger Mark III, and have spent some time shooting a High Standard. By far my favorite was the HS but... It was not mine and I didnt get nearly the time on it as I did the other two.

I have been without a 22lr target pistol since the start of summer and its now about time I replace the one I sold...

So, I am dying to get a .22LR target pistol... Not that I need one, I just want one. My budget is probably around 1700- give or take. I do not need to spend that, but, if I am convinced its worth it, I would.

I have given a S&W 41 some thought... I have thought about High Standards... both a Supermaric Trophy or Victor... I have thought about the Volquartsen V-6... I am looking into Hammerli's and I like the thought of the the Pardini sp22.

There are two major issues I am coming up on. The first is, I can not find a High Standard to my liking. I want it to look and function as new... 100% perfect. If its not, I dont want it. I know that the look doesn't make it shoot any better but, I am very, very, particular about the condition of my firearms and I can not stand, nor would I ever consider owning one that was not taken care of to the point of looking near mint... In my opinion if a previous owner did not respect his pistol to the point of maintaining it and keeping it well kept, why would I want his scraps. This may be wrong but, for me... it just is what it is.

Another issue is, there is just not that much info on VQ V-6 target pistols out there (at least that I have been able to find). So, I have no real account of what people think of the V-6 compared to the rest of my list.

I have just started reading up on Hammerli. I think I want one... A lot! Again, I just dont think I know enough about them to make am educated decision on one though. I have read that Larrys guns is the place to go but, I have also heard that they are a little over the top on pricing... I am not bad mouthing them and have yet to call them so, all I am going by is what I have read. In talking Hammerli, I DO NOT want the old trailside. I know that the Xesse is the exact same pistol but, I would prefer to stay current with one of them if I go this route. I have also started looking into the 208. I have seen a few that I think are exactly what I am looking for. I know that the 208 really shouldnt be compared to the Xesse but, I figured I would throw out the Xesse just to get some feedback vs the rest of what I was looking at.

The last pistol I have been eyeing is the Pardini sp22... its also the one I know the least about. Everything I have heard has been off the charts but, my exposure to this has been very little.

In saying all I have said above, I have expensive taste and know what I want out of a pistol. I do my homework and once I am 100% sure of what I want, then, and only then, I make my buying decision.

Where would you suggest looking for a Hammerli 208 or Pardini (Maybe here in the classifieds)? Like I said I do not know a whole lot about these two pistols but, I want to learn more.

Let me ask you all a serious question... in terms of rating the following, what is the break down on these pistols. Forget the price, just looking for performance... actually, feel free to mark your estimated value on these pistols as well.

107 Supermatic Trophy Victor
106 Supermaric Trophy
Ruger V-6
S&W 41
Hammerli Xesse
Hammerli 208
Pardini sp22


Maybe I am leaving a very nice 22 target pistol off? Feel free to list a few others if you think that there are better/comparable out there....

Thanks so much guys!! Looking forward to your replies!

Of the ones on your list, I think you should go with the Pardini. The only reason to get a 208 is that the frame geometry is more like the 1911 which most people use for center fire and 45 in a full 2700. You probably wont find one for under 1700 either. More like 2300 to 2500 for a well appointed 208, in good working, (but not pristine) condition.

If you intend to someday shoot the whole 2700, then my suggestion would be a Marvel Precision 22 conversion on a dedicated 1911 lower.

Does your budget include three magazines and a red dot scope and a mount for it? If not, your options may be very limited.

I owned a Victor at one time, and it was a great gun, but that was 30 years ago, and I have heard the modern ones are less good.

Hey there Isabel!! Thanks for the reply tonight...

I'll first start by saying that the 1911 platform is my favorite to shoot. I own many and feel most comfortable with them in my hand. So in saying that the 208 seems logical... That price tag is pretty high though so I may have to go another route... Pardini wouldnt be a bad thing.

I have also seen the Benelli MP90s or 95E... or even the AW 93 Feinwerkbau

Just trying to come to grips on what makes sense as far as being a really awesome target gun. At this point though, I am sure it is a personal preference thing

As far as rail and dot... I did not factor in that stuff... I am strictly iron sights and want to keep it like that for a while.

I am not totally locked into the stuff I mentioned, just what I have heard of and seen...

Forget Hammerli, there are no spares and service is shite. Besides that Excesse has had known barrel problems.
Pardini is great I had the old SP22. Prefered it above hammerli anyway, gripwise, balance/weightwise and triggerwise.
HS: dunno wether yr referring to ne or sechand one's. Current HS arent as good as the good ol'one's. Old=Hamden/Hartford, new is Texas iirc. I had a Victor, great pistol!

IMO the best gun for under 2k is the sig-hammerli exsses, it sells at larrys guns and champions choice for around 1100.00, it is almost identical to the 208s but parts are readily available being it is a current model, it comes with nice adjustable grips and an adjustable trigger group. The best 22 IMO is the aw93 but it will run you around 2500.00

Many of the top shooters are shooting the Marvel conversions at Camp Perry for the reasons I stated above. It will also fit your price criteria, even on a dedicated Caspian frame. If you like the 1911 platform, it would seem the obvious way to go.
If you are going to use iron sights, I think the AW 93 has the best ones. This is my international gun.

Let me cast my opinion in here! I have several old Hamden High Standards and love them all. I have a 41, couple of unique 69's beretta 87, and a marvel conversion. I have shot the 208 and pardini. I like them all. I would have to say for the cost the marvel is a good as any. I am also partial to the old slant grip high standards and have shot very good scores with them. The new High standards are stainless framed and very nice. Do not confuse them with the early blued Houston guns as they had many issues. You may find a very well cared for Hamden gun for less than 1k. But all in all the marvel is the most practical.

The Pardini's are a great pistol. I just got one the other day and it feels great and shoots like a dream. It has IMHO the best iron sights I have yet to see on a 22. Fully adjustable trigger and weight system.

Another pistol you may want to look at that is not on your list is a Walther GSP Expert or used GSP. The GSP is a tank. They don't have very many problems.

The marvel conversion on a dedicated lower is probably the way to go if shooting bullseye and shooting dot scopes.

Its hard to go wrong with all three of these pistols. All very accurate and reliable.

I have been doing lots and lots of reading... to the point that I maybe getting a little overwhelmed.

First let me say, thank you to all the folks who have replied to this point. I am not going to be putting any kind of dot on my pistols. I am purely an iron sight shooter so, there is no need to go any further with talks of dots or anything like that!

Also, I have changed up my pistol list a bit. Mainly due to some good phone conversations...

I am thinking of taking the Pardini sp22 off my list, mainly because it looks like a Walther GSP or SSP

I am now giving these a lot of thought. I am also giving lots of thought to the following:

Hammerli 208
Feinwerkbau AW93
Benelli 95
Sako Triac

I will eventually get a High Standard Victor and Hammerli Xesse to add to my collection but, I have realized they are just not in the class of the mentioned above.

I am sure I will change my mind 25 more times before I buy one of these... or find one but, at least I am doing lots of homework before jumping into it!

Thoughts?

I own a couple of victors and another Trophy, 208Sm M41 with Clark barrel.
All are great guns but I am starting this year with a Marvel on a dedicated lower.

The main reason for the change is trigger feel. I shot the M41 a lot but never felt the trigger matched that of the 1911 plunger triggers. I love the 208 trigger but I shoot a lot of rifle so am used to the 2 stage trigger. Many are not.

Try out the feel of gun. You are talking about Euro grip angles and 1911 grip angles and they are different so you need to consider that.

When you say the High Standards aren't in the class of some of the others I assume you mean price because they will shoot 10's at 50yd all day. For roughly $800-900 you can find a basically new in the box Hamden or E. Hartford High Standard if you want to go that way.

Hey Gents, I want to talk about the Marvel Conversions I keep reading so much about.

I see that the Night Hawk Custom website shows that Bob Marvel makes their conversion... I just realized I have a 500.00 gift card for Night Hawk. Is this the same conversion you all have been talking about? If so, Ill just use it on the conversion as its just been sitting around collecting dust!

please let me know asap


Also, if it is... (Now this thread is taking a total U-Turn,lol) What lower do I use? Would I buy a new lower and have someone build a specific lower for the upper? I have several Kimbers that I could use... I was specifically thinking a Team Match II

Please let me know! This could be super cool as I maybe able to get a nice conversion for next to nothing!

Thanks,
Bc

Cundiff5535 wrote:Hey Gents, I want to talk about the Marvel Conversions I keep reading so much about.

I see that the Night Hawk Custom website shows that Bob Marvel makes their conversion... I just realized I have a 500.00 gift card for Night Hawk. Is this the same conversion you all have been talking about? If so, Ill just use it on the conversion as its just been sitting around collecting dust!

please let me know asap


Also, if it is... (Now this thread is taking a total U-Turn,lol) What lower do I use? Would I buy a new lower and have someone build a specific lower for the upper? I have several Kimbers that I could use... I was specifically thinking a Team Match II

Please let me know! This could be super cool as I maybe able to get a nice conversion for next to nothing!

Thanks,
Bc

It should be fine if they have them in stock. The other units are made by a company called Marvel Precision in Nebraska. There have been many 22 conversions made for the 1911, the Marvel design is one of the more reliable and accurate ones.

http://www.marvelprecision.com/

For great functioning is is best to go with the GSG magazines, and slingshot them when loading.

You could certainly start shooting it with a Kimber lower. You can also ask the company you buy it from, what lowers they recommend.

Isabel1130 wrote:

Cundiff5535 wrote:Hey Gents, I want to talk about the Marvel Conversions I keep reading so much about.

I see that the Night Hawk Custom website shows that Bob Marvel makes their conversion... I just realized I have a 500.00 gift card for Night Hawk. Is this the same conversion you all have been talking about? If so, Ill just use it on the conversion as its just been sitting around collecting dust!

please let me know asap


Also, if it is... (Now this thread is taking a total U-Turn,lol) What lower do I use? Would I buy a new lower and have someone build a specific lower for the upper? I have several Kimbers that I could use... I was specifically thinking a Team Match II

Please let me know! This could be super cool as I maybe able to get a nice conversion for next to nothing!

Thanks,
Bc

It should be fine if they have them in stock. The other units are made by a company called Marvel Precision in Nebraska. There have been many 22 conversions made for the 1911, the Marvel design is one of the more reliable and accurate ones.

http://www.marvelprecision.com/

For great functioning is is best to go with the GSG magazines, and slingshot them when loading.

You could certainly start shooting it with a Kimber lower. You can also ask the company you buy it from, what lowers they recommend.

Yep, I knew that much, I guess what I am asking, is Bob Marvel the guy that owns marvel precision? And is the Nighthawk one the same as the what they are offering at Marvel Precision. I know my answer is a call away so, Ill go ahead and call tomorrow to see!

I was also going to ask, do you all recommend the threaded or non thread?

Thanks

Withe the potential for law changes in the US you may want to consider magazine in grip vs magazine outside of grip issues as well.

Cundiff5535 wrote:

Isabel1130 wrote:

Cundiff5535 wrote:Hey Gents, I want to talk about the Marvel Conversions I keep reading so much about.

I see that the Night Hawk Custom website shows that Bob Marvel makes their conversion... I just realized I have a 500.00 gift card for Night Hawk. Is this the same conversion you all have been talking about? If so, Ill just use it on the conversion as its just been sitting around collecting dust!

please let me know asap


Also, if it is... (Now this thread is taking a total U-Turn,lol) What lower do I use? Would I buy a new lower and have someone build a specific lower for the upper? I have several Kimbers that I could use... I was specifically thinking a Team Match II

Please let me know! This could be super cool as I maybe able to get a nice conversion for next to nothing!

Thanks,
Bc

It should be fine if they have them in stock. The other units are made by a company called Marvel Precision in Nebraska. There have been many 22 conversions made for the 1911, the Marvel design is one of the more reliable and accurate ones.

http://www.marvelprecision.com/

For great functioning is is best to go with the GSG magazines, and slingshot them when loading.

You could certainly start shooting it with a Kimber lower. You can also ask the company you buy it from, what lowers they recommend.

Yep, I knew that much, I guess what I am asking, is Bob Marvel the guy that owns marvel precision? And is the Nighthawk one the same as the what they are offering at Marvel Precision. I know my answer is a call away so, Ill go ahead and call tomorrow to see!

I was also going to ask, do you all recommend the threaded or non thread?

Thanks

I have a Marvel Precision. Bob Marvel sold the rights to make his design several years ago. There was a no compete clause, and then Bob was able to go back into business making his conversion unit. I believe Nighthawk may be this new conversion unit.

I dont know this first hand, this is just what I have been told.

Don't know about the threaded barrel vs not. I know my father used to cut threads in gun barrels with his lathe, so with rifles for accuracy, it was a good thing.

I have only limited experiences with rimfire pistols but decided after reading many many hours reviews etc. for a Haemmerli 208s.

The Pistol I have bought was unfired and the quality as ecpected. Nothing is cheap, everything is built like a high-end swiss watch.

Making so perfect Surfaces and fitting needs probably too much hand work and cost too much. Nowadys many people do no longer appreciate high quality things, only a cheap price is important.

Trigger on the S is extraordinary crisp and can be manual adjusted as you want.

A great piece of quality and precision but I am convineced if you shoot not both hands but one hand olympic, then there are better RF Pistols, like AW 93, Expert, SP 20 etc with a better adjustable grip and trigger.

But if you like a steel pistol made like in former times, the 208/208s would be a great choice.

Keep in touch
uwe

Cundiff5535 wrote:Hey Gents, I want to talk about the Marvel Conversions I keep reading so much about.

I see that the Night Hawk Custom website shows that Bob Marvel makes their conversion... I just realized I have a 500.00 gift card for Night Hawk. Is this the same conversion you all have been talking about? If so, Ill just use it on the conversion as its just been sitting around collecting dust!

please let me know asap


Also, if it is... (Now this thread is taking a total U-Turn,lol) What lower do I use? Would I buy a new lower and have someone build a specific lower for the upper? I have several Kimbers that I could use... I was specifically thinking a Team Match II

Please let me know! This could be super cool as I maybe able to get a nice conversion for next to nothing!

Thanks,
Bc

I am quite satisfied with my Nighthawk conversion on a Toyota built Les Baer lower. Nighthawk offers iron sights only for now. They say a scope rail is coming. Meanwhile, I adapted an Advantage Arms scope rail for the Ultradot.

I have a Marvel Precision and an Advantage Marvel unit that run flawless on my dedicated Springfield Armory lower. Both are extremely accurate, but I would give a slight edge to the Marvel Precision unit.
I have no experience with the Nighthawk unit, but photos look exactly like the other two.

Travis Frerking of FCW makes a dedicated lower for the Marvel uppers.
He builds them on a Caspian frame, and can configure them as you want.

If you feel the need to spend a lot of money, get the FWB 93.

since you shoot iron sights, you should find a Pardini SP new and heft it without a scope....excellent feel. I hate that I had to put a dot on my Pardini but I don't have young eyes.

I have a Floyd Aikman barreled High Standard Victor that will shoot groups in a ransom rest of .30" or better with old lots of R-50. Floyd has been gone nearly 20 years but he made a bunch for the MMU and sold them commercially with adds in the Rifleman every month. Brian Zins shot a few 100's with Floyd's barrel. I bunked with Floyd in the early 90's at Perry and he was a southern gentleman and a purveyor of wisdom for this Perry rookie.
Chris