TargetTalk

Since I dont find it here yet I though maybe this is interesting to someone:

http://www.result.issf-sports.info/2013 ... -print.pdf

Thanks for posting this link.

Scott

Yes, thanks!
Wow so much to get our heads around.
Gear, Finals, procedures ... etc

I'd like to propose not having a single thread for all rule discussions/comments/etc , but a format like

RULE X.XX.XX - comment

as a title for a discussion

these new rules are just plain stupid and will adversly effect shooting worldwide, Well done ISSF, who needs enemies of shooting when we have friends like you!

You will now need a two foot breach flag for your air rifle! The rule states the flag must extend through the full length of the barrel!!! Who dreamed that up?

Most smallbore free rifle buttplates will now need to be replaced or heavily modified, a maximum curvature of 25 mm is now all that is permitted (thats an inch to the colonials!) that's less than an air rifle where there is no limit to the curvature!!

Many jackets will be illegal, and most Ladies jackets! The new rule states you must not place any seam under the elbow. Nothing about wether it gives support or not, just any seam under the elbow, if left it means a lot of new or heavily modded jackets!

Boot soles to be ground off, except the moulded square toe Saur boots and then you need new ones!

Crazy new rules, from an arrogent organisation full of out of touch old men.
Good shooting
Robin

RobinC wrote:You will now need a two foot breach flag for your air rifle! The rule states the flag must extend through the full length of the barrel!!! Who dreamed that up?

This came from us "colonials". Our 3-P air rules require a Clear Barrel Indicator (CBI), since it's hard to check the "chamber" and an airgun and a pellet stuck midway in the bbl can still be expelled. It is one of our "safety" features after a few injuries. (Note that I did not use the word accident ... I don't believe in those with airguns or firearms)

RobinC wrote:You will now need a two foot breach flag for your air rifle! The rule states the flag must extend through the full length of the barrel!!! Who dreamed that up?

No need to panic over that one, a length of brightly coloured "weedeater" line will do the job.

jhmartin wrote:This came from us "colonials"

And i thought it was a typical German idea.

This idea with the signal flags in the guns isn't as good as it seems, because this will give no more real safety and forces some bad behavior like targeting with the gun at other people. It will only compensate good safety behavior. So it is a typical German idea.

To the new rules:

My jacket, my trousers and at least my shoes now do not comply to the new rules. And that is not all. My three butt plates will be illegal too and there is no easy way to make them valid. Take a look at the Keppeler butt plates. And i am only a club and sometimes national shooter. I'm shooting only just for fun for now nearly 40 years. One really big problem here in Germany is, all these crazy rules will be valid as soon for all grassroot or hobby shooters of the lowest level. And our national shooting federation is not much better then the ISSF. There is much influence from only a few people from our federation to the ISSF and they won't discuss any changes of the rules with us active shooters.

Shooting sport was ever very popular here in Germany. But the last decade we had a strong drop of active shooters. There are many reasons for, but one reason is this ever changing the rules theme. Have you all seen this change about the order in 3P. At this days here in Germany 3P isn't more so popular as it was twenty, thirty years ago. I believe in the future only some real specialists will shoot it.

We all know, shooting sport was never the real sport for spectators, it was ever a sport for doing it self together with friends.

I was ever a fan of this olympic idea, but there is something like the spirit of shooting sports too. Shooting Sport was never a circus event for the dumb masses. So it can't be a good idea, to change the rules out of recognition for only this one goal.


Regards from Germany

Frank

It's not that the air full length flag is impossible to conform to, its just that as Frank says its plain silly, counter productive to shooters actualy checking and working to good procedures, and its un neccessary! Whats next, shooters to wear boxing gloves when not shooting so they can't touch the trigger!

I'm 65, and one who works hard to bring young people and new shooters into our sport and I'm sad that this constant an un neccessary changing of rules is wrecking our sport, making current equipment non compliant, destroying the second hand market for new shooters, and all for what? Absolutely nothing!!!
The only ones rubbing their hands in glee are the small minority of equipment control rule readers and enforcers who have turned the job into a sport in its own right. The sensible ones will be as distressed as the shooters as its just made the job more difficult.
None of this rubbish will effect scores at the top level, none of it will change the image of shooting for the better, its just inconvenience, extra cost, and more hassle for shooters.
And I have two keppeler 300 mt rifles about to be delivered, so the firts job will be machining the butt plates to conform to the stupid new rules!
robin

jhmartin wrote:

RobinC wrote:You will now need a two foot breach flag for your air rifle! The rule states the flag must extend through the full length of the barrel!!! Who dreamed that up?

This came from us "colonials". Our 3-P air rules require a Clear Barrel Indicator (CBI), since it's hard to check the "chamber" and an airgun and a pellet stuck midway in the bbl can still be expelled. It is one of our "safety" features after a few injuries. (Note that I did not use the word accident ... I don't believe in those with airguns or firearms)

You can't expel a pellet if the breech is open. The only rifle I know that can fire with the bolt back is a Daystate, and i'm not sure they're used much in 10m. Breech flags prevent bolts being sent forward preventing all the rifles I know used in 10m firing, or even discharging air.

How does putting something in the barrel indicate it's clear? By the actual action, it's not longer clear is it?

If you've had injuries, it sounds like you've allowed people to touch rifles and close breeches and had people over the line at the same time... correct me if i'm wrong of course.

robf wrote:If you've had injuries, it sounds like you've allowed people to touch rifles and close breeches and had people over the line at the same time... correct me if i'm wrong of course.

See my post in pistol:
viewtopic.php?t=37227

I have yet to hear of sporting gun injury that was not because of stupidity in some sort or another. None were "accidents" and all could have been avoided.

I have feelings on both sides of the CBI matter, but if it reduces an injury, especially in highly visible and politically charged youth programs, to me it's worth the slight hassle.

I am 66 years old, I do not like changing things that I have been doing for forty++ years.
That being said, The CBI was an easy change. Trimmer string is wonderful. Our problem is that so many of our young shooters are from farm, ranch and hunting backgrounds we have to stay on top of them at the range. It makes it very easy for an RSO to see that a gun is safe.
As far as changing rules just to change them. That is nothing new. In 1989 it was not a hook or jacket or shoe, it was the whole gun. The rapid fire pistol was changed, no more .22 short or ported barrel that outlawed Hammerli, Walther and High Standard.
They have done it before and will do it again.

jhmartin wrote:
I have feelings on both sides of the CBI matter, but if it reduces an injury, especially in highly visible and politically charged youth programs, to me it's worth the slight hassle.

I'd be careful with that phrase, thats the same thing the anti's say to take our guns away, " if it save s just one life it's worth it".

If these incidents occurred they occurred because people didn't follow the rules, so by adding another rule that can too be ignored is going to fix this? It's really just another window dressing rule pretending to somehow make things safer.

How easier can it be: The gun ALWAYS points in a safe direction. If someone is down range: actions open and stay back from the line. In 40+ years of shooting never had or witnessed an incident when these simple rules are followed. It seems to me (and I hope to be wrong) that people who know nothing about shooting are getting involved.
Any how keep up the fun. I won't be bothered on my home range with these fantasies.

I've actually forgotten to close my FWB 700 before and have had it discharge, the pellet of course doesn't go anywhere but it does irk other shooters due to the very odd sound.

ChamaRob wrote:As far as changing rules just to change them. That is nothing new. In 1989 it was not a hook or jacket or shoe, it was the whole gun. The rapid fire pistol was changed, no more .22 short...

I wonder if there are any historians of the pistol sports who have access to the letters that were exchanged between shooters and/or officials back when the pistol shooters were forced to give up their .44 caliber revolvers. I'd wager there was some mighty fervent complaining.

(Off-topic, I know, but the above is more than a comment. I'm serious. Are there books or libraries with collections of papers and correspondence written by the top-level pre-WWII shooters? I'd love to read stuff like that.)

ChamaRob wrote:In 1989 it was not a hook or jacket or shoe, it was the whole gun. The rapid fire pistol was changed, no more .22 short or ported barrel that outlawed Hammerli, Walther and High Standard.

Without changing the point of your post, you're a few years out. It was actually 2005.