1911 Ammo Improvement?

mr alexander · Post by **mr alexander** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:55 pm

Decades ago, I had Clark Custom Guns build me a 1911 Wadcutter Gun in .45ACP caliber which proved to be a highly accurate and reliable pistol.

After quite a bit of time, it began to experience occasional, random failures to feed with my ammo. The rounds would feed half way towards the chamber and then suddenly stop. The pistol checked out to be okay.

I'll admit to being one of these guys who shoots and reloads his brass until the case mouths start to crack and split. Prior to reloading, all cases are 100% visually inspected. Powder charges, crimp amount and cartridge o.a.l. are routinely monitored while running the Dillon Square Deal "B"" Progressive Press. Before shooting them, each live round is again visually inspected and a Midway USA Cartridge Case Gauge is used to "chamber check" them.

A fellow competitor offered some helpful advice. The problem? Our 1911's are all steel while the cases are made of brass. Of course, the brass is the softer of these 2 materials.

Upon firing, the steel "claw" of the 1911's extractor violently pulls back on the rim of the case during the extraction and ejection cycle. Over a period of time with constant use, the rim starts to develop small burrs that are raised on its surface. These burrs can become large enough so that they interfere with a live round's ability to properly "mesh" with the extractor during the feeding cycle. Thus the failures to feed!

The solution? Dig out that old shell holder that you had used in the past with that single stage reloading press that's now gathering dust on your bench. (Mine is an RCBS #3).

Regardless of make, all shell holders have a "U"-shaped cutout on them which allows a round to enter it. Holding the shell holder in your left hand with the cutout at the 12 o'clock position, place a live round into it with your right hand. The cartridge will now be horizontally oriented with its base facing to your left and the bullet nose pointing to your right. LIGHTLY
grip the brass case between the thumb and trigger finger of your right hand. Quickly, yet gently, roll it a few times taking care not to inadvertently lift it slightly out of the shell holder.

Any round that rolls smoothly is a "good 'un". But, should you feel some that exhibit any resistance, dragging, binding or hesitation then that rim probably has burrs on it that may not allow reliable feeding. Mark and put it in your "practice only" container. Testing this way, I have even run acroos a few cartridges that were so bad that a full 360 degree turn was impossible to accomplish.

The key to this technique is not to use a gorilla's grip on the round. Also, do not use a gorilla's force when turning the round when it is in the shell holder. Doing so may prevent you from detecting the questionable brass rims.

I know of one shooter who even goes to the trouble of filing the rims of his bad cases when they are EMPTY, just to get a bit more life out of them. Holding a shell holder by itself can be hard to do for some and it can be fatiguing after awhile. I had a machinist friend make me a simple handle with a setscrew that locks the shell holder to it.

Since following my friend's tip, the unexplained feeding failures have ceased to exist! Try it.

Greg Derr · Post by **Greg Derr** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:19 pm

A properly tuned extractor should not make contact on the rim with the claw. The extractor in fact does not pull the round out of the chamber after ignition, The extractor is designed to hold the round in place against the breechface in order to hit the ejector. If you are getting dings in the brass the extractor may be too short. The burrs may be causing the rounds to hang up on the breechface.

Jerry Keefer · Post by **Jerry Keefer** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:05 am

I agree with Greg;
It does not rip the case out of the chamber.. Nothing happens, until the pressure drops enough for the barrel and slide to separate..residue low pressure gas assits in the case removal, much similar to a .22.
If the extractor is marking and or deforming the case, / rim.. The extractor is not properly fit and or adjusted. 9 out of 10 extractors are too long, and some welding/re- machining is required for most, to achieve ultimate fit/ contact/ & reliability..cam out should be adjusted to .010/.015 max..

Jerry

Greg Derr · Post by **Greg Derr** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:18 am

Jerry, so nice to have you here. I hope the members will come realize how much building knowledge you have. And the respect you get from the trade.

tuj · Post by **tuj** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:08 am

Both Greg and Jerry are top notch and know what they are talking about!

mr alexander · Post by **mr alexander** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:32 pm

My posting gets a reply from both Greg Derr and Jerry Keefer? Wow....what have I done??

Seriously guys, thank you for your replies. I am no pistolsmith, just a shooter.

Jerry, I did not know that "residual low pressure gas assists in the case removal, much similar to a .22". Thanks for the clarification.

Greg you stated that, "The extractor is designed to hold the round in place against the breechface in order to hit the ejector." I will accept this as being correct, but if this is the situation, then the extractor must be in contact with the case/rim when the brass hits the ejector. As the case is being flipped out of the ejection port, doesn't some part of it rub against some part of the extractor during its journey out of the gun? Wouldn't this rubbing then cause small burrs to form on the soft brass cases over a period of time with continuous use?

Jerry states that "9 out of 10 extractors are too long", while Greg replied that "if you are getting dings in the brass, the extractor may be too short."

Guys, I appreciate the fact that this is hard to analyze without being able to see my own pistol in hand. But, since the 1911 has been around for over 100 years, why haven't the manufacturers of pistols/spare parts come up with the correct specification for this pistol's extractor length?

I am probably missing something in my analysis of all of this and would appreciate any further explanations you both can provide.

I am confident that the people at Clark's are competent pistolsmiths. Is it then possible that my extractor's length has changed substantially over time since it was built due to continous shooting? Perhaps this pistol is due for a "tune-up".

Thank you both for your replies. Most sincerely submitted,

mr alexander

TonyT · Post by **TonyT** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:05 am

I also have a tendency to use brass util the mouths start to fray. I case gauge/chamber check my competition rounds and if I find one where the issue is a rim nick/rim enlargement I simply file the rim and use the cartridge for practise.