TargetTalk

Stopped in at the Pardini shop on commercial row at Camp Perry. Picked up the Pardini HP to try out how it feels. What a beautiful trigger!!! What's this? A 32 ACP? The very young gentleman behind the table was busy with others at the time so did not stick around to ask him about the unfamiliar cartridge. I've seen people shoot and talk about the 32 S&W at the firing lines around my area. So, that being said, I have questions and would greatly appreciate some help from the experienced bullseye shooters.

Here we go:

1. .32 acp, .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long. What is more accurate for indoor/outdoor bullseye?

2. 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long: Why would one choose one over the other?

3. Any of the above good at 50 yards?

Bottom line for me is the concept of shooting one gun for centerfire/rim fire matches. Theoretically it makes sense to me. Right? One gun same trigger with less recoil.... Would hate to buy such an expensive purchase not knowing about the inherent accuracies of a .32 cartridge.

Thanks in advance and aim for the center boys!!!

GUNNER45

While I cannot speak for 50 yard performance of anything other than the S&W .32 round which I have shot at the "long line with the HP." Yeah it works at the expense of the gun with 1.6gr. VVN310 and a 100gr. DEWC tipping was fairly noticeable. Quite in fact it tips slightly at 25 yards as well. The gun is designed for 25 meters and so is the cartridge and it's load. My HP reacted to the extra 0.4gr of powder by blowing out one magazine and destroying it???? I see some people drooling over the .32ACP, I personally don't know why unless they plan to change loads, head etc. with the newer round. I no longer own an HP but the recent acquisition of a brand ass new SP has made me salivate for the HP as well. I think I would rely on my past experience and stick with the S&W Long round. Knowing I am prejudiced about Pardini, I can still say after 10 years with the Older SP and HP, and now with the new SP---there isn't a better gun for the bucks. "Doc" a/k/a " The Cranky Ole Bastard"

The 32ACP is an old cart. New to bullseye.
The 32 S&W Long is an old cart. Designed for 25 meter ISU rapid fire.
Many people use it for bulseye. I have a 32 Walther GSP, it has respectable accuracy at 50 yards, but not enough if your nane is Zinns. A barrel maker,
Wilson makes an after market barrel that gives you great 50 yard results.
The 32 S&W Long is a wadcutter, so you are throwing a bottle down range.
The 32 ACP uses a standard shape bullet, I believe only with copper jacket.
I do not know if a lead bullet can be used.
One last thing, the idea of using a 32 ACP is not a new idea, I found articles going back over 20 years discussing it. They dismissed the idea.
As far as I know no match grade bullets are being made yet.
Pardini is the only one trying to market the bullet, at this time.
If you use a Dillon SD press, there are no dies for it.

32 S+WL Long is simply an old cartridge, later adopted for ISSF Centre Fire. Typically its loaded with a full wadcutter for target use but round nose ammunition is available for revolvers.

32 S+W is no longer in significant use.

32 ACP is mostly available in FMJ, but some LRN can be found. Jacketed ammo is not permitted in ISSF matches.

Most people now, if they want a dedicated center fire gun are going with the 9mm 1911. Shoots like a dream, the feel is the same as the 45, and allows you the 2.5 pound center fire legal trigger. I beleive Phil Hemphill shoots one and I have heard other High Masters are going to them also.

Greetings,

I machined a barrel for a fellow a while back in 32 ACP. He had me remove the barrel and install the original as he kept breaking extractors. It was a Pardini HP

Nonetheless, the barrel shot well. Photos attached of 50 yards groups.

Personally, I would stick with the 32 S&W Long Wad Cutter.

Cheers,

Dave

I have a 9mm 1911 as well as the 32 S&W Long in a GSP,
9 is very accurate, better than the 32,
but has a lot of recoil, actually more felt recoil than a 45.
You just can't beat a GSP or Pardini trigger, or the extremely low recoil for rapids.

I think the .32 ACP versus .32 S&W Long issue is going to be moot for most of us for a while because, according to the conversation I had with the fellow at the Pardini table at Perry, Pardini is unable to export the .32 ACP version to the United States. I don't know if this is a BATFE issue or if it's a problem at the Italian end. Anyway, I heard that the .32 ACP pistols have to be shipped to the US in an unfinished condition and have additional work (chamber reaming?) done by the importer.

Since I wasn't ready to spend $5000+ for a matched pair of .22 and .32 Pardinis I didn't ask for any details.

Trooperjake wrote:I have a 9mm 1911 as well as the 32 S&W Long in a GSP,
9 is very accurate, better than the 32,
but has a lot of recoil, actually more felt recoil than a 45.
You just can't beat a GSP or Pardini trigger, or the extremely low recoil for rapids.

I'm curious about the recoil of the 9mm 1911 relative to a .45. How heavy are your bullets and how fast are they leaving the barrel?

It is a much sharper recoil, more of a snap. 45 is not a sharp recoil.
My loads are about 1300 fps on a 115 gr bullet.

Forgot to mention I use more powder in the 9 than I do in the 45.
4.7 Grs bullseye. Zero 115 FMJ.
I love the 9MM but I also love my Walther.
When I went into Pardini at Perry last year, it was only $ 3200 for the 32ACP and 22 conversion as a Kit. That is a lot of money, but not 5000.
They can sell the 22 as a pistol and the 32 is only an upper. Its like buying a Marvel conv. kit.
I too heard something about Italy not yet allowing the 32ACP to be exportred, but thought they solved the problem.

Trooperjake wrote:Forgot to mention I use more powder in the 9 than I do in the 45.
4.7 Grs bullseye. Zero 115 FMJ.
I love the 9MM but I also love my Walther.
When I went into Pardini at Perry last year, it was only $ 3200 for the 32ACP and 22 conversion as a Kit. That is a lot of money, but not 5000.
They can sell the 22 as a pistol and the 32 is only an upper. Its like buying a Marvel conv. kit.
I too heard something about Italy not yet allowing the 32ACP to be exportred, but thought they solved the problem.

Do you have a slide or frame mount on both or either gun?
I have a frame mount on my 45 and using a 13 pound spring am able to shoot pretty light loads at the short line, and still get good functioning.
I would not be using bullseye to load 9mm. I would try 4.8 of VVN340, and watch where the brass goes. If it is hitting two firing points over, get a heavier recoil spring until it takes some of the snap out of the recoil, but you still get good functioning.

I might be allowed to cross-link to a rather pertinent (and IMHO very substantial) older thread on the same subject:
/viewtopic.php?t=31003&start=20

Regards,
Alexander

I have a slide mount on all my guns.
I have used VV310. but am using 231 now.
I was giving a comparison, I thought everyone would understand.
I use a 12 lb spring in my 45.
I have just bought a Pardini GT 45 and love it. The trigger is 300 % better than a 1911. Only drawback to the GT is that it is a double stack, i took off the grips and put tennis tape on. So far I have shot my best scores with the GT. I am using the 160 SWC.

JamesH wrote:32 S+WL Long is simply an old cartridge, later adopted for ISSF Centre Fire. Typically its loaded with a full wadcutter for target use but round nose ammunition is available for revolvers.

32 S+W is no longer in significant use.

32 ACP is mostly available in FMJ, but some LRN can be found. Jacketed ammo is not permitted in ISSF matches.

So, am I to assume that when people say or write "S&W" that they are refering to the S&W long cartridge? When I go to Pardini's website their HP model is advertised as a "S&W". So when you say "32 S+W is no longer in significant use." you can see how this is confusing to me. I guess a better question would be if I bought a Pardini HP would I get a 32 S&W or a 32 S&W Long?
Help!!!!!

You would be getting a 32 S&W Long.
There are many modern pistols still being made for this cartridge,
It is also very popular with the SASS cowboy group.

Hi guys!

Thank you for stopping by in Camp Perry and thank you for your interest in the 32ACP model.

The 32 ACP came to play because of the poor performance of the 32 S&W Long (32 S&W for short) at the 50 yard line. 32 S&W is a great cartridge for the ISSF Center Fire event (25 meter), CISM (25 meter)and 25 yards distance in Bullseye, but it loses its ballistic qualities very quickly after the 25 m. We play a lot with barrel materials, twists, throat angle, lands to grooves proportions, loads and at the end some years ago did tests with the 32ACP. The results were very good and the first pistols were made. John Ennis was the first who shot Paardini 32 ACP in Bullseye matches, and I believe he shot it in Camp Perry in 2010 for the win in Center Fire portion. In 2011, Emil Milev won the Rapid Fire and finished 4th overall in his debut in Camp Perry.
Unfortunately we are not able to manufacture the 32ACP in Italy. That is why a decision was made the 32 ACP configuration to be completed here in the States. We are expecting the first batch to be ready for the market late September this year.

Dave, thank you for posting your test targets and data. Our test with the lot that was developed have similar results. Best group .7 inch, average 1.1 inch at 50 yards.
About the issue with the extractors K. broke with your barrel: the problem was that he was using the standard 32 S&W bolt. The diameter of the rim is different and that is why a specifically machined bolt face for 32ACP is required. I sent him a 32 ACP bolt for tests and he did not have any broken extractors while using it.

The 32ACP will be available as a pistol or conversion kit. Initially the conversion will be possible for the HP model with 6 counterweights and for the new Pardini 22 Bullseye that will be available August 1st, 2012. Later this year, we hope to be able to offer conversion for the older models of HP with 4 counterweights. I am not sure if we will offer conversions for the models with no counterweights at all. The kit will include 32ACP barrel, 32 ACP bolt, 2 magazines, recoil spring with guiding road all in a carrying box. The standard SPNew and SP1 cannot be converted to 32. Only the new 22Bullseye can be converted.

The prices are not even close to $5000.
HPNew ACP is $2299.00
HP32ACP/22 (the HP pistol with 22LR conversion kit) is $3499.00
Just the 32 ACP conversion kit is $1299.00
Same price $1299.00 is for the 22LR kit for your HP pistol (models with 6 counterweights)

Hope this will help.

Vladimir Chichkov
Pardini USA LLC
www.PardiniGuns.com
www.PardiniGuns.com/store
info@pardiniguns.com
call: 1.813.748 3378

Vladimir,

Other than the ability to convert to 32, will the 22 bullseye be any different than the SP new?

Yes, the Pardini 22 Bullseye has a heavy bolt and a little bit different frame. The Pardini, as most of the 22s is blow-back construction. Our design is originally made for the international events that are at 25 m distance. In order to address the needs of the Bullseye shooters at the 50 yards line, we did some tests and found that the heavier bolt gives 17-20 mm group compare to 25-28 mm with the Sport pistol bolt. It is not a big difference but we asked and a lot of BE shooters said that this will be preferable so we did it. Our goal has always been to listen and address shooters needs and ideas.
We expect the price to be about the same as the SP New Mechanical trigger.

Vladimir Chichkov
Pardini USA LLC
www.PardiniGuns.com
www.PardiniGuns.com/store
info@pardiniguns.com
call: 1.813.748 3378

Thank you for the information on the new Pardini Bullseye model.

Does part of the adaptation to the American market include grooves on the receiver to mount a dot sight?