TargetTalk

How long is it normal to stay in the prone position? For a whole match? Half a match? Less?

I shoot around 15-20 shots, then I stand up and take a rest but try to keep it as short as possible so the barrel doesn´t cool down to much.

I havn´t had problems with lying down again and getting back on target, just wanted to hear your thougts on this matter.

When I started High Power, I couldn't stay on the ground for the full 20 minutes and needed to get up in the middle of the relay. Once I got used to it I stay in position til the relay's done.

Smallbore I also stay in position for the entire relay. If I have a good position, don't want to break out of it. That would be 20 shots plus sighters.

On the second day of prone at the Junior Olympics, I did not break out of position until shot 52. Once I have a good position, I don't like to change it.
Matt

It's rare that I stand up. If my jacket slips much or the position just feel wrong then I stand up otherwise I just rest every 8-15 shot or so. I put my kneeling roll in my left armpit so I can relax and move my left hand to get the blood back in my hand.

In my experience a lot of folks take a break, but few actually stand up. I vary it but will break for up to 10 minutes normally twice in a 60-shot match. I've never noticed barrel cooling to be an issue, POI is the same before the break as it is after for me, but it may well vary between guns / barrels.

By a break I mean releasing the rifle, I may or may not stay in position. I like to feel if you train properly then you will easily get back into the correct position.

Rob.

I typically take one break in a 60 shot match. That break takes place between shot 35 and 40. Before i just shot until things started going bad but now I take a break before that happens. When I break I just take my hand out of the sling. Everything else stays in place. My break typically lasts two minutes or so. I dry fire at least two shots before starting back up. If things are real windy out I will usually take more breaks as the match is going to take me longer to shoot.
Eric U

I typically go for 15-20 shots at a time. When I take a break, I stay in position, flip the butt of the rifle back over my shoulder and support the fore-end with my trigger hand and take the support hand out of the sling so I can flex it and relax it. That way my basic alignment and such isn't disturbed at all (I can get back down exactly, but it's more time-consuming and doesn't have any additional benefit to fully break position, to my mind). That way when I'm ready to go again, I just push the rifle forward and place it in my shoulder, dry-fire a few shots to make sure everything's settled, and away I go again.

I usually do 5-10 sighters then do all 20. Then I break after each set of 20 shots. Some people don't like to get out of position, but personally I find it is refreshing and allows me to maintain good mental focus.

My coach has got me to do entire practice matches shooting one shot at a time, getting out of position, walking then firing again. Repeat for 25 shots or so. It taught me to locate my position almost instantaneously and means when I get back down after my 20 shot break I am basically ready to go straight away.

NonniThor wrote:How long is it normal to stay in the prone position? For a whole match? Half a match? Less?

I shoot around 15-20 shots, then I stand up and take a rest but try to keep it as short as possible so the barrel doesn´t cool down to much.

I havn´t had problems with lying down again and getting back on target, just wanted to hear your thougts on this matter.

Does your forward hand fall asleep like mine? I find that if I take a break it has to be long enough for my hand to completely "wake up" before getting back into position because I find that the handstop/sling pressure on a half-asleep hand hurts a lot.

So when shooting six diagram targets I don't take a break and shoot the entire target. When I shoot Gehmann boxes I take a break at about the halfway point and dryfire a few times to settle before moving on.

Jason

I was talking to Ernie Vande Zande, and he used to shoot straight through. All 60 without breaking his position once. He told me, that he "trained through the pain". Another option would be to shoot really fast. I have heard of a few people who could finish all 60 shots in about 15 minutes.
Matt

If you 'shoot through the pain' for a long period of time, you risk causing yourself muscle, nerve, or tendon damage. I certainly damaged what I believe to be my brachial nerve a couple of years back - which meant an enforced break of a couple of months.

Practically though I don't understand why you'd want to. You have tons of time to shoot the match and can let the blood reflow into the hand for a few minutes. You will also be much more likely to perform better if you're not distracted by the pain.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:If you 'shoot through the pain' for a long period of time, you risk causing yourself muscle, nerve, or tendon damage. I certainly damaged what I believe to be my brachial nerve a couple of years back - which meant an enforced break of a couple of months.

Practically though I don't understand why you'd want to. You have tons of time to shoot the match and can let the blood reflow into the hand for a few minutes. You will also be much more likely to perform better if you're not distracted by the pain.

Rob.

Just out of curiosity, would overall conditioning of the arm aka strength training minimise the possibility of damaging the nerve's etc if one was to shoot through the pain. I don't shoot all the way through personally, just interested.

Thanks for your replies and insight.

Like AusTarget said I like to get up and take a couple of minutes break and then get back down. I´m fresh and my position tends to get better/tighter as the match progresses.

I havn´t dry-fired when I get back down, that might be a good idea although it hasn´t been a problem getting back on target.

My left hand tends to fall asleep and that´s the main reason it get up. I don´t like the idea of "shooting through the pain". But I don´t think my sling should be any looser. Is this a problem?

The "coldbore" shot in my rifle always goes down and left in the 7´s, and it´s so constant that I sometimes get it in the ten-ring by shading. But it´s back where I left it the last time I was shooting right on my second shot. So when I take a break in a match and wait too long to get back down it can get out of the tenring. I keep my bolt closed and watch the time when getting up so the barrel doesn´t cool down too much.

AusTarget wrote:
Just out of curiosity, would overall conditioning of the arm aka strength training minimise the possibility of damaging the nerve's etc if one was to shoot through the pain. I don't shoot all the way through personally, just interested.

I don't believe so, no. In the upper arm you'll still have muscle and tendons - just more of the former. You will never get muscle on the back of your hand that would take the strain of the sling - without still cutting off the blood flow to some extent.

Oh and you really do not want to keep your bolt closed if you get up from your gun. You face a warning or disqualification for safety violations. That's what breech flags are for.

Rob.

Oh and you really do not want to keep your bolt closed if you get up from your gun. You face a warning or disqualification for safety violations. That's what breech flags are for.

Noted!
I keep the bolt head all the way forward but the bolt handle isn´t down, or "cocked". Maybe that doesn´t matter?

NonniThor wrote:

Oh and you really do not want to keep your bolt closed if you get up from your gun. You face a warning or disqualification for safety violations. That's what breech flags are for.

Noted!
I keep the bolt head all the way forward but the bolt handle isn´t down, or "cocked". Maybe that doesn´t matter?

The bolt is still closed and resting against the cartridge so I would still say that's unsafe. You should be able to see their is no round in the chamber. Open ideally with a flag in.

Rob.

Would rule 6.2.2.4 apply? I'd say if the shooter leaves the firing point, "the bolt or action must be open" as they are not "actually firing".

Some ranges will require the bolt to be open and breech flag inserted if the rifle is taken out of the shoulder as the barrel may be pointing OVER the backstop..

Tim S wrote:Would rule 6.2.2.4 apply? I'd say if the shooter leaves the firing point, "the bolt or action must be open" as they are not "actually firing".

Some ranges will require the bolt to be open and breech flag inserted if the rifle is taken out of the shoulder as the barrel may be pointing OVER the backstop..

That makes sense. I always insist on breech open +/- flag if the gun is no longer being held. If you are holding the gun then it's different. If you the point the gun up in the air over the backstop, then that's a slightly different range safety issue - still liable to be warned though, as an RO will reasonably treat any gun with a closed action as live.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

AusTarget wrote:

Oh and you really do not want to keep your bolt closed if you get up from your gun. You face a warning or disqualification for safety violations. That's what breech flags are for.

Rob.

Thanks, thought that mightn't be the case as the wrist doesn't exactly beef up.

I don't know if this last part was directed for me, but whenever I get up I ensure the breach is open and there's a visible flag in place, so I've never faced a problem with that.

It is pretty possible that in new ISSF Rules so called "red flags" become obligatory. Up to now, if a bolt is open but not completely, jury members or referes usually kindly ask to open it fully, but if continued yellow card is what you should expect :-)