TargetTalk

Who are the gunsmiths who put together a bullseye gun so tight ( barrel fit and slide to frame ) that you literally have to shoot it in or beat the slide to lock it up? I know but this is what I want and am willing to pay for it. Thanks in advance Jim

Check out Chamber's work...

http://www.chamberscustom.com/

Last I read, he was fitting the bushing with 10,000th in. tolerances. His guns range between 1.1 and 1.5" 10-shot groups at 50 yards. That's pretty much as good as it gets.

As for tight guns, I have a Les Baer PII 1.5G and its very tight after lots of rounds. Still requires a bushing wrench to get the bushing off. I always make sure to take the pistol out of battery before working the bushing. An empty 45 case works great for holding the slide back while rotating the bushing with the bushing wrench.

David Sams builds as good and as tight a gun, that will stay tight, as you will find. It is easy to build a tight gun by squeezing the slide on the rails, what is tougher is machining it correctly so it will stay tight after 10,000 rounds of use or so. One of the best ways to keep a gun accurate, assuming the barrel is good and the slide to frame fit is right, is to have a full length guide rod, and a very tight, almost nonremoveable bushing. The full length guide rod has a hole in it that will hold the spring back with a modified paper clip and allow you to remove the slide from the frame without taking off the bushing. The guide rod and spring will come out but the barrel never leaves the slide.
If a gun is built correctly, it will function as well when new as it will after a break in period, but that requires that the parts be machined to fit and not squeezed together.

tuj wrote: fitting the bushing with 10,000th in. tolerances.

The internet is wild with all kinds of myths. Use caution and do research.

Les Baer guns are that tight, and can be bought without a long wait most times from gil hebard guns or champions choice. Just a note the frame mounts are a little less super tight than the slide mounts just so you can rack the slide, also available with a 1.5 inch @ 50 yard guarantee but even the standard models are most times furnished with a test target of less than 2''.

Roddy makes guns that are smooth as glass to operate. My HB grouped 1" with Noslers. The wadgun grouped 1.5 with lead. Both have bushings that need a hard push to turn as they did from day one. In ten or more years I have only broken them totally down 5-6 times. And that is not because I am afraid of the wives tale wear on the bushing. It is because I hate cleaning guns. I do oil them well.

If that is what you want then that is what you should get...it's your money. However, you will be paying for substandard gunsmithing. The up side is that you will get plenty of practice shooting alibi strings. A properly built pistol is ready to go and requires no beating, but rather perhaps a bit of load tuning. There are lots of gunsmiths out there who can get them close, but the good ones can do that last bit of fine fitting. Good luck.

Thanks for your input, there does not seem to be too many out there. Who does the Military Pistol teams gunsmithing? or do they buy commercially? thanks in advance----- Jim

jim lock wrote: Who does the Military Pistol teams gunsmithing?

The Army Marksmanship Unit (AMU), the U.S. Navy Shooting Team, and the USMC Weapons Training Battalion have their own armorers. Don't know about the USAF and USCG programs.

The USAF team has provided their own guns in the past. Many shooters, even ones on sponsored teams shoot their own personal guns. Shooters are often more picky about set up issues than who builds their guns. If you are getting into bullseye, it is often best to buy a used gun, and figure out what you like and dont like before you have one custom built. Most bullseye gunsmiths offer you all sorts of options that you have no clue about until you have spent some time evalating them.
General rule of thumb, new shooters will do better with a crisp trigger until they develop enough discipline and triggering skills to shoot a roll trigger. However if you start out with a roll, you may never realize that there is an issue with it for most people.

I second the vote for Dave Sams. I have bought quite a few guns from
David and have never been disappointed and never waited longer than he estimated. Dave Salyer in NC is a gentleman and has built championship guns. There are others including Roddy Toyota, Chambers, and Ed Masaki (also a great guy) in Hawaii. The important thing is to go with a well established gunsmith with an impeccable reputation. You may have to wait, but there is a reason for that.

A word of caution, it will take time to get a custom wadgun. But, it's worth the wait. I would choose a gunsmith from among the few that have the best reputations. You will be required to pay a deposit and the last thing you want is to wait and then have to fight for your deposit back. This has happened to many shooters, new and experienced. So be careful. If you choose a custom gunsmith over a production gun you will not regret it.

Cheers....and good luck and enjoy.

I suggest checking with Greg Derr. He builds a 1911 that shoots as good as it looks. Take a look at his recent post on the Bullseye Pistol Talk. He builds a super nice 1911. Greg is also an accomplished bullseye shooter, so he knows what a high quality bullseye 1911 needs to do.