TargetTalk

Does anyone know what type of powder the AMU currently uses for their bullseye 185gr JHP loads?

Ask Zurek, he's probably using it with a Zero 185JHP.

I think it's 4.7gr. of WST with a Nosler, though.

The Marines use the Nosler with 4.2gr. VVN-310 and WLP primer, but I hear plain ol' Bullseye works good, too.

I have the reprint of the Shooting Sports USA issue (December 2011 reprint available online, 1998 original) with the Marine load. The article says 4.1gr of VV N310, Nosler 185gr JHP, new Winchester brass and Winchester primers, with a 1.200" OAL and 0.469 crimp. I have heard 4.2gr mentioned a lot. Maybe that's a change over time, or people goosed the 4.1 to 4.2 to increase reliability.

I plan to load some of that, but with Zero bullets and Starline brass.

The AMU load is another option. I figure the Marine and AMU guys have devoted more time to load development and careful testing than I ever will. I'll try what they use first, and I bet it will shoot better than I can for a long while.

ps: yes, I just bought my reloading press, and I'm geeking out. I'm a scientist. That's what I do.

I think the AMU actually uses Atlanta Arms and Ammo ammunition. I suspect they are either using VVN310 or some kind of blend of their own. There are a lot of different loads that will hold the ten ring at 50 yards in a good gun. My advice, worry half as much about your ammo and twice as much about your triggering.

the oal and the crimp on the Marine Corps load look good. I use 4.2 of Titegroup with a 185g Zero lead hollow point for the long line. Flies straight and punches nice clean holes. I use only lead in my wad gun because the barrel will wear less which is another important factor for me. They are also quite a bit cheaper than the jacketed bullets.

Isabel1130 wrote:I think the AMU actually uses Atlanta Arms and Ammo ammunition. I suspect they are either using VVN310 or some kind of blend of their own. There are a lot of different loads that will hold the ten ring at 50 yards in a good gun. My advice, worry half as much about your ammo and twice as much about your triggering.

Yes, it is Atlanta Arms. That's what the boxes are. I was asked to remove the lot numbers from the box when I was given them :-).

I understand I should be concentrating on me (i.e. technique), not the ammo, and I am trying. However, I see the new world of reloading as fun. I love machines with lots of adjustments to play with, and I love applying the scientific method and statistics to stuff outside my work. I don't plan on dedicating a lot of time screwing with loads, but I want to do the job right as soon as possible. Lots of people have spent lots of time messing with loads. I hope to find a couple from the experts and just implement them as best I can.

atlanta arms did use v-310, but it became very expensive and hard to get years back so now the ones i have broken down look like wst powder, also the marine load with v-310 was bumped from 4.1 to 4.3 after that article was put out

Stop farting around with this stuff. You can't use a "formula"; you must test. Reloading for accuracy is more an art than a science.

The club has a Ransom Rest (ask Don or Z); use it and you'll know what works. If the first load you try is accurate you need go no further. Use the cheapest components first.

Rover wrote:Stop farting around with this stuff. You can't use a "formula"; you must test. Reloading for accuracy is more an art than a science.

The club has a Ransom Rest (ask Don or Z); use it and you'll know what works. If the first load you try is accurate you need go no further. Use the cheapest components first.

Oh, believe me I'm going to test. And I like farting around with this stuff, so I'm going to do it. I shoot and do all the other things because I think it's fun. I could care less if I SHOULD be doing something else to get better with maximum speed. I'm not doing this to solely to win matches. I'm doing it to have FUN.

Get a job!

cgroppi,
I too love to test to see what can be done but I think it is way more science than art. People only call it art when they can't understand what or why. I suggest you try some 200 grain bullets with slower powder like 231, Power Pistol or in that range. The minimum amount of energy to operate a slide is the same no matter what the weight of bullet is but the felt recoil can be different because it is also a matter of time(which might be called sharpness). I think Clays is about the highest recoil (for the amount of speed) of all the powders. I tried to use 155 grain bullets one time for shooting in steel plate matches and found that by the time I got the bullets going fast enough to operate the slide, it felt like more recoil than it did with the 200's. That being said, if the lighter bullets are more accurate at 50 yards, then you might be stuck using them. In my experience, I can't get jacketed to shoot more accurately than lead and I could easily shoot a 2700 with a Ransom Rest. -- Bill --

cgroppi;

I know where you are coming from, new to reloading.
I just this week made a purchase of reloading components that will last me about 3 years of Bullseye shooting.

I have been struggling in expert class for a couple years, looking to finally pull my head out and make master this year.

I shot my personal best at the midwinter this year with an 860 in the .45

Long line is 4.38gr Clays under an 185gr JHP Zero.
Short line is 4.45gr Solo 1000 under an 160gr LSWC Valiant

I almost pulled the plug on the N310, but my little voice said wait, why pay all the extra cash when you can shoot the Clays just as well.

Work up a load, stick with it and shoot.
It only gets better over time.

Clarence

. . . .

sobakavitch, when I was in the AMU in 1965 none of the reloaders or gunsmiths ever shot in competition. Some of the coaches shot pretty poor scores even when compared to we "new shooters" but they were great coaches. When you get older you will understand. In the mean time, just listen. -- Bill --

oldcaster wrote: When you get older you will understand. In the mean time, just listen. -- Bill --

AMEN to that Bill.

Actually Al Dorman and Dave Salyer were the first to develop the Nosler 185 gr. bullet for bullseye pistol loads. They passed on the loads to the USMC. Dave Salyer shared some of their findings with me several years ago on the old bullseye list. Of course they ended up using VV 310, but Dave said that the Nosler bullet shot very well with 4.5 grains of Alliant Bullseye. He also said that the COAL wasn't critical to accuracy. I and my shooting buddies have been very happy with the accuracy of 4.5 & 4.6 grains of Bullseye with the Nosler 185 grain JHP. One of my shooting buddies got a 10 shot group from the Ransom Rest at 50 yards that measured under an inch with a Rock River Wadcutter pistol. He used 4.6 grains of Bullseye to get that group. Most of my groups with various accurized pistols have measured close to 2 inches.

My groups with good loads are right in the 2" range at 50 yds for 10 shots also and quite a few bullets fit into that catagory and don't vary much to the point that it is difficult to choose which is the best. My favorite after a lot of testing is a Saeco 068 or 9. If I were to try a 10 shot group 30 times I might change my mind but the difference is insignificant enough to make it not worthwhile. My Baer is about 25 years maybe 30 years old, I can't remember. I think individual bullets like a certain velocity and several powders might serve the purpose with the velocity being the most important differential. With the bullets I chose, 5.4 grains of Power Pistol has served me the best but other guns might like something else. A friend Vic shooting one of his self accurized guns shot the molded 068 bullet to a 99 on the long line and later a 100 at a 25 yard slowfire target. This says a lot for the bullet, but even more for the gun, and the most for the shooter especially since it was last year when he was 69 years old. He uses 700X but I don't know what load.
If your friend got less than an inch even once that is amazing and certainly a wall hanger. I have gone so far as shooting 25 round experiments without any major difference in the 45 bullets but still settling on the same two bullets. Other calibers aren't nearly as compliant and can be a real challenge. -- Bill --