TargetTalk

I am thinking about upgrading to a new 22 for Bullseye. I started on the low end of the spectrum, and now want a pistol that I can pretty much stay with, rather than make two more jumps. I had pretty much decided on a Model 41, and then last week, a member of our league showed me his GSP. I got to hold it up and take a sight picture, but didn't get to shoot it as the match was getting ready to start. I really liked the feel of it and the balance. It actually felt light to me for a 42 oz. pistol. I also was attracted to the looks of the Blue suppressor and blue laminate grips. So astetics and feel of the pistol have sparked some interest. However, I know nothing about them. A search of this sight and on line provided some insight but not answers to all my questions, so I'm hoping someone here may be able to shed some light.

I would like to know how difficult the pistol is to field strip and assemble and does it come with clear instructions to do so? Is it finicky toward ammo? Does is come drilled and tapped to accept a rail for a dot? Can it be dry fired without doing damage? Do the springs, ejector, and firing pin hold up to extended use? Is the GSP inherently accurate and is it any more accurate than a model 41? Finally, does it warrant the price difference over a model 41 of $800 - $900? What do you like or dislike most about the GSP?

Thank you;

Ric

Probably one of the least finicky towards ammo pistols available. Taking it apart is loosening one screw and flipping a lever, pretty easy.

Some say it can be dry fired with nothing I always use a snap cap or the five shot training trigger if working on timing.

Its a very proven design there's tons of them around (other than the recoil system the EXpert parts are the same as the standard parts).

It tends to be a little front heavy some don't like this.

They are extremely reliable with minimal care.

I've shot both the GSP in .22 and .32, I've shot but not owned the Expert, I now shoot the SSP.

I have a 1990's GSP, love it. It is my second GSP and kicked myself for selling the first one. The first one was from early 1970's.
I also have the 32 upper. Both are extremely accurate, at least more than I can shoot, even on a good day.
The Expert is an improvement over mine.
i would call Champions Choice as soon as possible, before someone changes your mind.
Good luck........whatever your decision..

Thanks for the great information. I went to Champions Choice web site, and each of their GSP experts is listed as having a 2 stage trigger with a a 1000 g pull weight. I was under the impression that single stage was better for Bulls Eye Shooting. Which trigger is best and maybe if I call them I can get a single stage if that is better?

Also, I have a strong 3 Gun Pistol Box. Will the Expert fit in the pistol drawer rack with the magazine being in front of the trigger?

Ric

I only shoot 2 stage triggers, everyone I shoot with shoots a 2 stage ttigger.
Even my 1911's are 2 stage.
I have the small 3 gun Strong box and my Walher fits.
The tray is adjustable for height.

Trooperjake wrote:I only shoot 2 stage triggers, everyone I shoot with shoots a 2 stage ttigger.
Even my 1911's are 2 stage.
I have the small 3 gun Strong box and my Walher fits.
The tray is adjustable for height.

Jake;
Thank you for the information. I learned something I didn't know about triggers, and I am relieved to know it will fit in my box. I will be contacting Champions Choice and placing an order in the very near future.

Ric

Rimfire Ric wrote:

Trooperjake wrote:I only shoot 2 stage triggers, everyone I shoot with shoots a 2 stage ttigger.
Even my 1911's are 2 stage.
I have the small 3 gun Strong box and my Walher fits.
The tray is adjustable for height.

Jake;
Thank you for the information. I learned something I didn't know about triggers, and I am relieved to know it will fit in my box. I will be contacting Champions Choice and placing an order in the very near future.

Ric

Two stage triggers are fairly common but people who shoot 45 for both CF and 45 often go with a one stage for their rim fire gun. This is because they want their rim fire gun to be as much like their 45 as possible. This is also why the Hammerli 208 is popular for bullseye. It has much the same balance and feel as a 45.

I have GSP Experts in .22 and .32. I prefer single stage triggers myself, so I adjusted the triggers on both guns to feel like single stage. I did triggers on three other Experts belonging to other team members at my shooting club. You only have to adjust out the first stage travel. I bought both Experts, an OSP2000, and an SSP from Earl's.

Good luck, and good shooting, chukeeee

If you want to decide which is the one for you, go to Brian Zinns website and read what he has to say. You can also email him for an opinion.

This is very good information and brings up a point I would not have considered. I'm sure glad I made this post and you guys have been so forthcoming with your thoughts. I always thought "single stage", and is why I was so surprised to see the Pistols listed on CC all had 2 stage triggers. That is certainly an indication that they are widely utilized. However, it also sounds like others use the single stage as well. However now that I know 2 stage may have some benefits, I will research both, before making my next purchase. I will try to find what Brian Zinns has to say and will ask at my league on tuesday what most people do in my area. It is a point that has never come up that I am aware of. I always thought 2 stage were primarily used for long gun bench shooting. After giving it some thought, I can see where it may be be a benefit for slow fire, but I'm not sure about in rapid and timed fire? At any rate I hope to get all the answers to make the right decision before making a decisions.

Thanks all and please post any additional thought you may have.

Ric

Remember, rapid fire is also slow fire, without putting the gun down.
You still do everything else the same. Just not wasting time.p

Trooperjake wrote:If you want to decide which is the one for you, go to Brian Zinns website and read what he has to say. You can also email him for an opinion.

I went to www.brianzinns.com but I could not find anything on two stage triggers. I guess I could have missed it. If you have a link you could post I would appreciate.

Thank you;

Ric

Brian has an extensive article on trigger control.
I guess he does not exactly say one or two stage.
http://www.brianzins.com/2010/03/12/technique/
You can email him for what you are looking for.

I can tell you that Brian Zins is a big advocate for shooting a gun with a roll trigger. However, one caveat, a roll trigger is one that you must have a lot of confidence and discipline to shoot. As a relatively new shooter to Bullseye, a roll trigger may not work for you. If you are timid and hesitate on it by STOPPING YOUR TRIGGER PULL you will often end up flinching shots straight up right into the six ring or higher. I took out the clip holding the target in my first match with a new 45 with a roll trigger. It requires a lot of discipline and dry firing to trust your hold and pull through the roll quickly and smoothly. I recommend lots of three second drills.
You may find for the first few years that you shoot better with a crisp trigger.
Many two stage triggers can be made to roll in the second stage. If the second stage of a two stage trigger will not roll, you can make a two stage trigger feel like a roll by setting the weight the same on both stages so you don't feel the break point between the two stages. This will mimic a roll.

Thanks Jake; I had read that write-up on trigger control, and thought I had missed something on 2 stage you initially mentioned.

Isabel, thank you for that explanation. As a relative new shooter, I just made a nice jump in my scores by installing a volquartsen accurizing kit and eliminating pretravel and overtravel. I think you may be right in fact that increasing my trigger pull with 2 stage or a roll trigger might not be the best thing for me right now. It does appear from my reading that the trigger component is a drop in unit on the expert and could be changed pretty easily at a later date for about $300. Will do some more research and decide.

. . . .

I had a GSP, sold it when I got a Hammerli 280. Regretted it later, as it was a nice gun. Reliable as a brick after 20 shots - the gun liked to be run a bit dirty. I learned to not to clean it the day before a match.

You can get single-stage trigger modules for them. I had one. That being said, I greatly prefer a two-stage trigger.

Sobakavitch and Mike M - thank you for the additional information.

If you have both the .22 top end and the .32 top end and shoot a red dot do you have to have a red dot on both top ends (.22 and .32) or would one be interchangeable with the top ends and still be on zero? I understand the scope mount fits where the rear sight resides. Is the mount quickly removed?

It seems anyone that has had a 2 stage trigger prefers it over the single stage. Makes me think it would be worth a try. I think someone mentioned that a 2 stage could be adjusted to be a single stage if I didn't like the 2 stage.

Rimfire Ric wrote:Sobakavitch and Mike M - thank you for the additional information.

If you have both the .22 top end and the .32 top end and shoot a red dot do you have to have a red dot on both top ends (.22 and .32) or would one be interchangeable with the top ends and still be on zero? I understand the scope mount fits where the rear sight resides. Is the mount quickly removed?

It seems anyone that has had a 2 stage trigger prefers it over the single stage. Makes me think it would be worth a try. I think someone mentioned that a 2 stage could be adjusted to be a single stage if I didn't like the 2 stage.

This is a tricky exchange if you are not going to shoot with irons. A red dot could be mounted on the frame in order to be used with both slides but chances are that it will not line up with both barrels, and you are going to have to figure out what the adjustment is. You might also have to mount it quite high to get the irons or any rails to clear the scope mount . You could go with a dot on each slide which will be fine with the 22 but your 32 loads may have to be quite hot to action the slide on the 32. This is one of many reasons why you won't see many of these on the line at Camp Perry. It is quite a bit of hassle when a dedicated 9mm center fire gun will give you all the atvantages of reduced recoil and none of the hassles and accuracy issues of shooting a 32 at 50 yards.

Rimfire Ric wrote:Sobakavitch and Mike M - thank you for the additional information.

If you have both the .22 top end and the .32 top end and shoot a red dot do you have to have a red dot on both top ends (.22 and .32) or would one be interchangeable with the top ends and still be on zero? I understand the scope mount fits where the rear sight resides. Is the mount quickly removed?

It seems anyone that has had a 2 stage trigger prefers it over the single stage. Makes me think it would be worth a try. I think someone mentioned that a 2 stage could be adjusted to be a single stage if I didn't like the 2 stage.

You would need a separate dot for each upper. There's no slide, the bolt is inside the upper receiver.