TargetTalk

I am at my wits' end, and hope some other MG5 owner(s) can help.
The saga:

1. Purchased MG5. So far so good. Money operates as intended, and The State still trusts me.

2. When firing, if the cartridge seats ALL THE WAY by hand it fires. If it needed a push from the bolt - even for the last 1 or 2 mm, I would get the "sproing" of a dry fire, but the firing pin wouldn't be released. Re-setting the trigger usually did the trick, as would cycling the bolt twice prior to trying to fire (once to seat the round, once to get it to work). Since FP chambers are usually "tight", very few brands of ammo would drop in all the way without resistance,which means most ammo doesn't work without trouble.

3. Matchguns sent me a new bolt, which I installed. There's a slight improvement (?) in that now, if a cartridge needs a push from the bolt to seat I get a light firing pin strike, instead of no strike at all. Again, even if the bolt has to push the last ONE MILLIMETER this happens. It still doesn't fire first time, so I'm not sure this is anything but a slight moral victory.

4. I also, after installing the new bolt, started getting case ruptures at the extractor location, and consistent "bulges" in non-ruptured cases at that location. I never examined my empties before, so I don't know if this is a new problem associated with the new bolt or not. The extractor is mounted independently of the bolt, so there's no apparent mechanical reason for a different bolt to cause this, so I'm assuming I've always had bulges there but that the problem is just worsening. The case rim is unsupported at the extractor location, and the extractor "tooth" itself is a little recessed from the chamber wall and also from the rim of the case. (i.e., if the extractor cut in the chamber is 1mm x 1mm, the extractor "tooth" is 1mm X 0.5mm and is recessed below the level of the chamber). The ruptures, in addition to being a disquieting safety concern, are also eroding the anodized aluminum "frame".

Can ANYONE offer any insights into the firing problem?

If there are any MG5 or MG5e owners out there, can I trade (or send) pictures of my chamber/extractor so you can tell me if it looks similar to yours?

Matchguns has told me the problem is due to a dirty chamber (repeatedly scrubbed since the first failure to fire) and ammunition with poor quality brass. I've been extraordinarily pleased with my MG2, but all the goodwill they've built up with me is rapidly disappearing.

Hello Tom,

I don't have an MG5, but a TOZ-35 and when I first received it I had light strikes on the rim of the case and I'd have to cock it again. I found that if I opened the bolt a second time (after seating the round) did it fire consistently.

I ended removing the bolt carrier that houses the firing pin and spring. Then clean it thoroughly and put on a light oil. I also may have put the firing pin on a whetstone to remove a burr? It was a busy night that night.

I'm not sure if this is any help, but, here is an overview of the action and maybe others can add after reviewing it.

Between the 20 - 45 second mark shows what I believe Tom is speaking to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9faasFZEOiA

After reviewing the video, I'd clean the extractor too.

Chuck

Tom,

I shoot a MG-5E and have not had any light strikes. I am afraid that I cannot offer any informative advice on your problem.

I would be glad to look at any pictures that you would like to send and compare them to my pistol.

I have had in the past (twice) a situation occur. I would shoot a shot and the loading lever which I had locked down moved up. It did not move up more than 1-3 mm but it gained my attention during my follow through as it would block the view of the front sight. Somehow the barrel had moved forward and the bolt was not closing tightly enough. There are two screws on top of the barrel at the loading end that adjust the placement of the barrel. I had to loosen the forward (screw towards sight) a little bit, then tighten the screw near the bolt area, and re-tighten forward screw. This would allow the bolt to close firmly and have the loading lever stay down after a shot as it should.

A year ago I had the ejector contacting somehow a part of the bolt that it should not contact and it developed a curve to it (the ejector piece was curved-it finally broke in two pieces). I was getting shots to go off when I tried to close the the loading lever. The Matchguns folks were very kind and sent me a new bolt and ejector and I installed them. I sent the old parts back to them.

My MG-5 likes RWS, SK, and Wolf (SK & Wolf are probably the same ammo). It would not load CCI as it was too tight and too long.

You can email me at: jack AT jemfoto DOT com with images. If you are able to please keep the resolution low 72dpi is all the monitor can show anyway. It can be 10 x 10 but low dpi helps via email.

Come see us in the woods.
Jack

First, apologies to Jack who requested a small file size and who got big ones. I simply wasn't paying attention.

Pictures (regarding case rupture and extractor location) attached.

Gosh, Tom, your barrel looks defective to me. I don't think that slot should go in that far.

Tom,

I agree with Ben (I believe it is Ben) in addition to what I emailed you. The notch that appears behind your extractor is much deeper than mine is and as I mentioned my ejector is almost flush with the end of the barrel and the case rim of the barrel. There is no empty space behind my ejector toward the front of the barrel.

Jack

That gap might explain the case rupture - there is no support at that part of the chamber and the rupture looks to be about the size and shape of the gap. When the ruptured case was extracted, did the rupture line up with the gap in the barrel? If so, I think you have a pretty good case for a factory warranty repair.

Roger

Roger - that's exactly where the ruptures/bulges are; directly opposite the firing pin which is at the top of the bolt. I've only had a few ruptures (mostly because I quit shooting it after the first rupture except to test it), but every single case has an ominous bulge at the extractor location. Eley, with its thicker or stiffer brass, doesn't bulge as much, but it's still not a reassuring sight. Every single SK, Wolf, or Federal empty case is on the verge of failure.

Bump to top in attempt to garner some help!

Have you sent those pics to matchguns??,
Dont know how long you have had it , but i would be giving the chamber a good clean out, to help with the case seating properly.
Also have you extracted the shells by hand with by pushing your cleaning rod through the barrel from the muzzel end , that way you will know if it is the extractor cutting the hole in your case ,
if its the extractor i would say that a small amount has to be filed off, you should ask Matchguns if the extractor is a drop in part or does it need to be fitted by gunsmith ,either way thats just not right.
CHEERS .S

Can you show a pic of the bolt face?

Hi James -
The bolt face is simply a flat area with a hole for the firing pin.

The chamber of my MG5 is tight, too. Most brands og cartridges have to be pushed in by considerable finger pressure. Magtech rounds chamber more easily, though, as do some Remington ammo.

Cartridge cases do bulge int the extractor groove,at firing, usually, some brands more than others. Have not had any case rupture yet.

I would advice you to consider the post of Jack Milchanowski above. Maybe "barrel adjustment" is the cure for the light firing pin strike?

Tom,

Sorry to hear that you have not solved your situation. I tried to get enough light in the correct area to capture a couple of shots to show you of my MG-5. I had just shot 60 plus shots and did not clean the pistol. I should have but I believe you can see the difference in the area directly behind the ejector (area marked A in my images). Yours appears to have much more space which I think is causing your problem. In one of my images I marked an area "B". This was just to point out that this area is a deep shadow due to the light I used coming in from that side. My ejector fits flush with the barrel and matches nicely in the area where the case rim sits.

I have had my MG-5 for at least four years. I have shot it with the mechanical trigger and the electric trigger. I prefer the mechanical. No problems after solving my initial situation listed way above.

The MG-5 shoots quite well. The driver needs some help.

Jack

I say tight chamber (maybe), loose bolt mechanics (too much headspace, doesn't advance far enough) and poorly fitting extractor.

I investigated this some, last night. From your photo it appears the cutout for the extractor at the rear end of the chamber of your gun is a bit deeper than that of my gun.

Regarding "tight" chamber: I chambered, and then extracted, several unfired cartridges of different brands.
For some brands, the front "shoulder" of the bullet (front of sylindrical part of bullet) showed "bright" lead, from bullet being squized some by the forcing cone, in front of the chamber. At chambering the round twice, it entered chanber with ease. So, the chamber itself may not be extremely tight, but the forcing cone/lead may be on the short side.

my guess from my mg5 inspection is that in tom's mg5 the recess for the extractor goes too much in to the chamber leavening an area of the case unsupported. i am not a gunsmith but seems he may need a new barrel.

Speaking as a rifle shooter, but could the existing barrel not just be removed, shortened, at the breech end, and re-chambered? If there is nothing wrong with the bore, rechambering would save the cost of a new barrel.

Well, there are some complications:
At the top of the frame, the barrel is fixed by two screws through the frame, each one entering a drilled recess at the top of the barrel. They are in fact porposedly entering this recesses slightly off-center. By unscrewing one screw some degrees, and then tightening the other, the barrel (head space) may be adjusted a few thousands of an inch forward or rearward.

If new recesses have to be drilled, they may interfere with the ixisting recesses. Which may be cured by rotating the barrel 180 degrees. But then, ther are the same complications at the front of the barrel. The compensator fixing screws at the front of the barrel enter recesses off center, too. The tilt (or no tilt) of the front-blade is adjusted by these two screws. ...

A competent gunsmith may be able to cut off the rear of the barrel a few thousands, then ream a new chamber. with a reamer configuration matching that of the orginal chamber, to avoid a step in the chamber. (There are numerous "chamber-reamer-standards" out there, with some variation in diameter and other dimensions.)

It can be done, but a new barrel may be a better fix. If a new barrel is obtainable.

Or make a new extractor to fill the slot and adjust the screw holes to slip the barrel back slightly?

If the firing pin is not being released, as mentioned in the first post, there is still something wrong with the bolt/firing pin - I've never heard of a bolt which can be pushed back enough by the cartridge to not fire.