TargetTalk

which do you think is better remington 540x or kimber 82g can buy either one for same price

I think the 540X is a better 3-position gun, especially for youth.

The Kimber 82G is a great gun, but it's heavy and the stock is not all that great for the "free-rifle" 3-position as the rules alllow you to be.

Also call Mac Tilton at MT guns ... heard he has some good Anschutz 64's at very decent prices (about the same as a K 82G)

jhmartin wrote:I think the 540X is a better 3-position gun, especially for youth.

The Kimber 82G is a great gun, but it's heavy and the stock is not all that great for the "free-rifle" 3-position as the rules alllow you to be.

Also call Mac Tilton at MT guns ... heard he has some good Anschutz 64's at very decent prices (about the same as a K 82G)

Mac is out of the office right now as his wife passed away and he is currently settling his wife's estate.

There is no Position Competition today that would favor the Kimber. Benchrest, or sandbag maybe, but that's it. There are lots of used Anschutz, Rem 540s, etc to be had, and you may want to look at our CZ 452 project Rifle, < http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... c&start=60 > But you can forget the Remington 40x, Win 52, Kimber 82, etc as too big, too heavy and not adjustable enough withought spending $500.00 - $1000.00 on modifications.

Roy McClain
(678) 772-8185 cell
www.OleMillRangeCTC.com

In response to the comment that Kimber was not appropriate for 3-position shooting for junior shooters, I have to disagree. My daughter was 13 when we purchased a Kimber 82G from CMP (at the last minute, due to problem with her former gun and difficulty finding parts for it). We ordered the Kimber, mounted the scope, and sighted it in at 50 yards only 3 weeks prior to her fall state 4-H match. She had only 2 1/2 weeks of actual target practice with it and ended up shooting a 270 with it in 3-P. This is a 13 year old girl holding an 11 1/2 pound gun (scope included). She has no problem with it in 3 position and the stock seems to fit her fine. We may think about altering the stock to put a hook on it, but in the last year she has achieved 100's in prone, 94 in standing, and 99 in kneeling, so I'd say her scores were good. She has an Anschutz sporter and also a CZ455 for silhouettes, and we have talked about replacing the kimber with an Anshutz target rifle. Our daughter says no....she loves her kimber 82G.

Rockbottom ...

Be aware that Roy & I are talking about 4-H Nationals and USA Shooting smallbore rifle events, probably most of the NRA events as well.

The main issue with 4-H is that each state, sometimes each county has rules of it's own that probably do not conform with the 4-H Nationals rules. Some NRA events have stages where scopes are allowed, but only a partial part of the match ... and even then you can shoot metallic in those "any sights" part of the match.
If you are not practicing and your local area is not shooting the National rules, you are probably setting your kids up for disappointment at Nationals.
I've been at a 4-H Nationals where a team even showed up expecting (and had been practicing on) man sized B-18 targets (a HUGE no-no in 4-H) ... yup, all the way out to 100m. They were a bit distressed to see the chickens, pigs, turkeys & rams!

While you can get a scope to give you adequate eye height, a scope is not a valid sight for the 4-H Nationals in the 3-P event ... only metallic sights are allowed in the 3-P event. Also, note that 4-H nationals uses Metric targets, not Conventional in the 3-P event.

The scope is OK for 4-H silhouette event ... but the rifle is too heavy ... only 10.2 lbs is allowed. My oldest daughter shoots a chopped down Kimber 82G for silhouette, but we had to really take the stock to the tablesaw to make it meet weight. ( http://vc4hss.com/_Coaches/images/K82G.pdf )

It is not appropriate at all for the CMP Rimfire sporter event at 4-H Nationals. While the scope is OK, you need a rifle that is less than 7-1/2lbs and has a magazine of some sort, as in the rapid fire stage you only have 30 sec to shoot 5 shots.

Also, if your daughter wants to qualify for the JO's, she'll have to ditch the scope and fire open (aperture) sights there as well, as that event follows USA Shooting Rules.

If you had to look at an "overall" gun, one to shoot all 3 events with (NOT OPTIMAL!!!) A CZ-452 or the CZ-455 is probably the best bet.
I personally believe that as a minimum, 2 guns are needed ... a 3-P gun and then one to share the Silhouette & rimfire sporter event.

Has anyone tried a Biathlon Basic. Mine weights 7.5 lbs and will shoot 1/4 inch groups at 50 yds. Barrel mikes .750 at the muzzle so a front sight is easy. Rear sight clamps on to the weaver base supplied with the rifle. Rail is an easy install. You can find these rifles used for about $400.00-500.00. I bought mine new for $275.00 out the door about 10 years ago. I converted it to a 3P rifle for the kids and then to a Biathlon rifle. Toggle action is really fast and a scope would clamp right on the Weaver base. Just throwing this out there.
Chris

I appreciate your comments, and yes, although our state does allow scopes at the 4-h state level, our team is well aware of the 4-H rules at Nationals and have trained accordingly. One of our kids actually won First overall in the smallbore competition about 4 or 5 years ago. I in no way meant that the Kimber was appropriate for all portions of the smallbore competition, which is why she has the Anshutz sporter and the CZ455 to shoot silhouette AND possibly CMP. She also has several of her dads's 10/22's to chose from for the CMP portion, so hopefully we're getting prepared right. What I meant to say is that for those who are JUST STARTING in the smallbore venue, and have access to a Kimber for the low, low price of $425 from CMP, it's a hard bargain to turn down. Especially for parents who'd like to make sure it's a longterm commitment for their kids, before they are willing to output the funds to secure a more high end rifle. They're worth a second look. Thanks...

While you can get a scope to give you adequate eye height, a scope is not a valid sight for the 4-H Nationals in the 3-P event ... only metallic sights are allowed in the 3-P event. Also, note that 4-H nationals uses Metric targets, not Conventional in the 3-P event.




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Please note my previous post-I acknowledged that at 4-H nationals they only allows metallic sights, but our state allows a scope at the state level. We have shot the kimber 82G with peep sights and/or scope,and the gun performs very well in the target portion 3 position contest. Of course it's not appropriate for the silhouette portion, which is why we have found the CZ455 American to be an excellent choice. The weight of the kimber 82G is debatable for a any youth....my 13 year old was able to heft it just fine, but it is a personal choice of course. But it's an affordable choice for some that can't be denied-the gun was designed to shoot in the same league with an Anschutz......and it can. Our state also uses the metric targets for competition-not conventional in the the 3-P.