TargetTalk

Ok.. just about ready to start up with loading .45 ball.. what I would like to know is.. what is the better brass to use for my ball gun.. I have an opportunity to get some once fired brass and none of it is Starline, so lets not deal with that.. so what brand do you like? FC, Win.. or other.. I can tell you from my experience with S&B in .40S&W that I don't want any of that.

It just doesnt seem to matter. Any mixed range pickup will do.

Remember that you need to headspace on the bullet because the brass is all too short and is just held by the extractor.

Rover is exactly right. Any head stamp will do just fine. What I will do if I am feeling real ambitious is weigh my cast bullet heads and use the ones that are closest to the average weight of the lot for slow fire. Those I will load into a Federal case only so I can identify them, not because they are any better than any other.

SIE107 wrote: I have an opportunity to get some once fired brass and none of it is Starline, so lets not deal with that.. .

What's the deal with Starline? They're the only ones that make nickel plated .38-40 brass , which I've been shooting several hundred rounds a month, for over five years, in an original Marlin 1894, and an Uberti 1873Win. repro. , for cowboy action matches. Never had a problem with the brass. .38-40's have very thin necks, which in any brand, fail after about 20-30 reloads, especially in progressive presses with case activated powder drops. I reload mine in a Hornady progressive, to which I've adapted a Dillon case activated powder measure. To my knowledge, they're also, the only ones making .45 Super brass (.45acp)

Paul

I had a pistol once with a Kart barrel that was case sensitive. It didn't like military brass and the gun would jam. It didn't like Federal. Starline and Winchester worked without any problems.

Not picking against Starline.. I am saying what kind of brass other than Starline is what I am saying I guess.. I know that a lot of shooters like it.. but as soon as it comes into stock.. it is gone.. I can get mixed range brass for 40.00 for 500.. which to me seems high..but then when you can't seem to get your hands on brass.. I guess you pay the price.. the range brass though has a lot of S&B in it.. I know that the S&B .40 brass.. it was really hard to get the primer to seat properly..

On another note.. I can get Montana Gold 230 FMJ bullets for 159.00 a thousand.. are they worth getting??

You are right about S&B cases being hard to prime. I got into a little disagreement with someone on the Bullseye List who was selling range brass and said I was wrong about tight primer pockets in them. Thank you for confirming my observation. As I told the other guy I just chuck any I come across. When I first read your post I thought the price you quoted for Montana Gold bullets was high. Then I looked around a bit and now it doesn't seem so bad. I couldn't find any Zero bullets at all and only a few others at over $20/100.

I was using once fires Federal nickel. The brass shoots well and it robs the brass Gods in the grass. For a match at Perry I shoot the Winchester primed brass, N-110 and the 185 Nosler at the long line.
Chris

This is to misny The problem was not with the barrel it was with your cleaning. ( the barrel had carbon built up in it ) It's very hard to see and with normial cleanings will look shiny as it was clean but is not. You have to flake it out sometimes it's very hard ( been there done that) As far as brass I like W-W the best a use only for matches. Federal is the second. I gave up on starline,. As NM champ and dear friend Mr Chaney uses only starline but has alot of it. But him and I agreed it doesn't matter as long as the are the same,. But Him and I only use the same brand though out the match no missmatching it's better for uniformity., hope this helps

As a long range shooter.. I do understand the prospects for tragety if you mix headstamps.. consitancy in volume is imporant, just like doing everything you can to reduce verticle dispersion is important.. esp on the long line.. but just wasn't sure if it would matter with the .45..

Go to the Magnus bullet site and they will show you their accuracy and tell you that it is mixed brass and doesn't matter. For a long time when I tested loads in the RR I only used Federal Gold Medal brass because I had enough to use only them in my testing and didn't want a varience that might cause a problem while testing. After shooting enough groups that I knew what was good I started using mixed brass and there was no difference. I recently had some Aguila brass and when loading on the Dillon, I continually didn't push the primers in hard enough and had to redo them. They are tighter but will go in if you press hard enough but I consider them a pain.

Hi, I am just a newbie reloader and while looking up 45 Acp tips I came across this old thread.
Sorry for reviving this up again but this statement by Rover has me scratching my head :

"Remember that you need to headspace on the bullet because the brass is all too short and is just held by the extractor."

Ok, so if the case is too short it might be held by the extractor, but I thought that seating the bullet so that it actually rests on the chamber rim is bad news all around .

What am I missing ?

I don't seat the bullet on the front edge but let the bullet stick out about .020 on the longest brass in my bunch so it might stick out .050 on the shortest (just a guess). I just don't want it any longer than necessary and don't want it so short that the brass itself might be sticking up. As I said before, check this site and look at the accuracy that Magnus achieves from mixed brass.

http://www.magnusbullets.com/test_targets.htm

When I get a piece of brass that has a tight primer it gets put in a box until I have enough to work on with a primer swager. If they are real rare, I just pitch them because it isn't worth them sitting in a box for a year. Aguila cases will accept a primer but I have to push hard and that upsets my rhythm, S&B which I just about never see, won't go in at all and have to be swaged. Military, which used to be common has to be swaged also but I never see them anymore. I do however have a fair amount of S&B 38's that have very tight primer pockets and have to be corrected. -- Bill --

One thing that doesn't seem to be discussed is case length. This is especially an issue if you are using range pickup and trying to make the most consistent and accurate loads.

The length of the case will affect the crimp. Crimp affect the velocity of the round and thus the accuracy. If your range pickup differs 15-20 thousanths in length, the crimp will vary quite a bit also.

So, depending on what you are trying to do you might at least consider sorting it by some lengths. Maybe sort by some range of lengths so you can set your crimp accordingly.

Apparently it didn't bother Magnus in their tests and if they can get the results they got ignoring brass length so can everyone. The most important thing in the mix is bullet type and quality. Next is velocity of that particular bullet in that particular gun. Even croocked shooting guns will benifit from these two things but accuracy is always reletive to the gun and the manner in which it is shot. The brass length variation not causing a problem is true in 45ACP but not necessarily in others although taper crimping instead of roll crimping in other calibers is a lot more forgiving which is probably why it doesn't matter in the 45 because everyone taper crimps. I went through the stage where I was afraid to mix brass but I learned. -- Bill --

There seems to be a fuss about case length. If you recall, I said all brass is too short and to headspace on the bullet.

This is done by seating the bullet and then testing it in YOUR guns barrel (removed from the gun). If the base of the case is flush with the barrel hood you have it right. If not, adjust it.

Schatzperson, I don't know where you got the idea that this was "bad news all around," but it ain't.

Does anyone know the actual length of their chamber..?? What headspace did the smith build into the gun?? Case length and headspace does matter, if you want the best possible accuracy at 50 yards. You can shoot any good brass at short line. Starline is presently, the best brass available for long line. It is very consistant in length, averaging in the mid .890s.. If you have the opportunity to measure the case length on some late 1960s/70 match ball, one will find that it also averages low to mid .890s. There's a reason for that.
Chamber design and dimension is very important for 50yd line accuracy. Your ammo should compliment that chamber, and headspace on the case mouth..
Jerry

Jerry, You need to go back to the Magnus website and re read what they did and look at their results. Many have confirmed the same results but people still insist that you have to use certain brass for 50 yards. Their results was at 50 yards with several different bullets. I would like to see anyone do better than Magnus did with lead bullets with their choice of brass whether it be new or whatever and then post so we can all see it. It wasn't even done with a modern tight slide CNC machined gun but an accurized series 70 Colt and a Springfield.

oldcaster wrote:Jerry, You need to go back to the Magnus website and re read what they did and look at their results. Many have confirmed the same results but people still insist that you have to use certain brass for 50 yards. Their results was at 50 yards with several different bullets. I would like to see anyone do better than Magnus did with lead bullets with their choice of brass whether it be new or whatever and then post so we can all see it. It wasn't even done with a modern tight slide CNC machined gun but an accurized series 70 Colt and a Springfield.

Oldcaster;
:) A custom built, Curtis, Chambers, KC Crawford, Marvel, and some others, is usually going to to out shoot a CNC gun.. I am not saying, you can't "get by" or get reasonable results..If you want the best accuracy possible, paying attention to headspace/chamber length/chamber design/concentricity, and leade angles, is always going produce better results.. I know each of the smiths I mentioned above, and they each know the depth of their chambers..to the third decimal, at least... I gaurantee it.. Lead is my preferred projectile.. but I am not here to post pictures and claims to best anyone or any business..
The late Al Bacon was interested in headspace/chamber design. We bought 1000 450 Rowland cases. I made a fixture to machine each case to .900 The chamber(s) were machined to .903 The groups were outstanding.. Mixed brass of various manufacturers was shot in the guns. The groups opened up.. Not off the paper, but noticably larger. But, let's disregard my testing and experimentation, and that of the above smiths..It is an internal ballistic fact, that headspace, chamber design is superior in preformance to random chamber and load dimensions..
Jerry

. but I am not here to post pictures and claims to best anyone or any business..

In other words, you can't do it. -- Bill --