TargetTalk

I am trying to find out how private gun clubs (i.e. those that don't have to strictly adhere to OHSA rules) heat their indoor ranges when they have once through ventilation systems that draw in outside air. We would like to figure out the "best" way to do this at the lowest reasonable cost. For shooters to produce excellent results in ISSF style events they have to be reasonably comfortable so I figure the range air needs to be at the very least around 65 degrees (with 70-75 being better). Hard to do if outside air is 20 degrees or less.
FYI: we have a 14 point, 25 yard range; currently with just a large radiant propane powered heater (garage style) above and behind the shooters, which just barely makes the range tolerable.

Do you heat the incoming air? How?
Do you have radiant ceiling heaters?
Do you have radiant floor heaters?
Do you have radiant heaters in the shooting booth walls?
Other heating method?
What is your range temperature when it is below freezing outside?
What are your heating costs?

Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

We would lay copper conduit or tubing coils in the concrete and force heated water thru them to heat the concrete floor. It's the only way I've ever seen to do what you're asking about...

www.OleMillRangeCTC.com

I used to feel like "poor me, poor us" until I began talking to a bunch of shooters that do not have the luxury of even practicing indoors.

Our air rifle range (10m - 10points) is a metal building at the fairgrounds that has tin walls exposed to the outside ... in winter months (Nov-Mar) when we walk in the temp is almost always below freezing. We have 2 85,000 BTU propane heaters we run as well as a propane "tikitower" that the parents huddle around ... we can usually get it up to the mid 40's by the end of practice. In summer (Jun-Sept) it can be above 100 when we come in .... we have one large swamp cooler that can get it down to the low 90's ... unless we get a rain squall, then we turn the water off on the swamper and blow air thru.

Our indoor smallbore range (50ft - 6 points) is an old WWII army barracks wooden building that we have a propane forced air heater in that we augment with one or two of the 85K heaters (depending on the starting temp) .... we keep the airflow fan off until we can get the internal temp up to above 60 and then let the shooters fire. Summer we open the doors and let the air blow thru.

In the cold our shooters who fire CO2 are used to seeing the rifle "exhaust" spin coils of CO2 downrange .... in the heat we are careful not to fill the tanks to more than about half .... enough for an easy 3x20.

We're thankful we can shoot year round out of the wind and sand.

If we had the money to build a new facility, the method Roy mentioned would be the way to go ... a nice coil under each firing point......

Note, I had looked at radiant IR electric originally at our air rifle range, but we would have had to bring in a larger electrical service (we only have 100A service) and that would have been prohibitive. I'm happy that the fairboard lets us use the building at no charge .... we pay for our own propane.

Shooters will adapt, do what you can. If you can get it "comfortable" and in the 60's, I envy you.
If you can get them out of the extremes ... like our outdoor prone matches in the winter (this month -6F) or Benning in the summer ..... they'll not complain too much

PaulB
There are "makeup air heaters" a commercial item that adds some heat to the incoming air. Check with a commercial HVAC supplier. Basically they "kick-on" when your exhaust air system starts to cycle. You will still need your heating system, but the incoming air will not be as cold. You can set the temp of the "makeup air" to what ever you have to spend on HVAC.

Joe

I shoot in an indoor range which only has overhead quartz heaters--blocked by the motor unit for the retrievers. The range is as warm as it is outside therefore 24F outside=24F inside. Now the overhead heaters are as useless as you know what on a Boar Hog. Additionally, if you bring in Outside air and turn on the two downrange ventilators when the smoke level rises, we now add the windchill factor to the above. So one can imagine trying to shoot AP & FP during these months is an example of heroism (stupidity). I use a small electric quartz heater in the booth with me to keep my hands and fingers from falling off. We have thought of various solutions but the range is the property of the local PD/PBA and they could care less. "Doc"

PaulB wrote:I am trying to find out how private gun clubs (i.e. those that don't have to strictly adhere to OHSA rules) heat their indoor ranges when they have once through ventilation systems that draw in outside air. We would like to figure out the "best" way to do this at the lowest reasonable cost. For shooters to produce excellent results in ISSF style events they have to be reasonably comfortable so I figure the range air needs to be at the very least around 65 degrees (with 70-75 being better). Hard to do if outside air is 20 degrees or less.
FYI: we have a 14 point, 25 yard range; currently with just a large radiant propane powered heater (garage style) above and behind the shooters, which just barely makes the range tolerable.

Do you heat the incoming air? How?
Do you have radiant ceiling heaters?
Do you have radiant floor heaters?
Do you have radiant heaters in the shooting booth walls?
Other heating method?
What is your range temperature when it is below freezing outside?
What are your heating costs?

Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Our range is just wood wall with no insulation. The only source of heat we have been using is a Salamander heater blower. The temperature got around 60 at best and low to mid 50s during the coldest subzero days. The only draw back is that some people didn't like the smell of No 2 diesel, but there were only a one or two people in the 20 years we have been using it that have complained. I guess the smell wasn't as bad as having icicles hang off your nose. Since there is no insulation the room only retained heat for about ten minutes before it got cold again. The range was usually colder then the outdoor temperature.

65 degrees is plenty warm for winter indoor shooting. I now shoot AP and FP at my house, however, I used to shoot at an indoor range we had to turn on the heat when we arrived. There is a wall we shoot through with a narrow door on each point for the low positions and a curtain to move aside when standing. I used to shoot smallbore rifle and it was awful if a pistol shooter was there at the same time. The heat went out the top and back in my face on the bottom. A ventilation fan was added after I stopped shooting rifle, so the headwind may not be present anymore. It never gets warm downrange.
I took my freepistol there one morning when the low was 10F and my electronic trigger decided to fire on its own. I'm glad it wasn't a repeater! Ben

Spend as much as you can for insulation. My old club built the indoor range partially sub-ground (five steps down), and put about three feet of solar rock under the ready room and firing line area. Downrange just had insulation under the concrete. We heated with solar and ran the heat into the sub-floor rocks. Kept things about 40 degrees (Lander,WY), then added a woodstove in the ready room, and make-up heater in the fresh air intake for the range. Had to be careful not to get the ready room too hot with woodstove, because heat sensor for intake air would shut down the make-up heater and we'd get outside air "(-20 to +?).

Current range has one garage type ceiling heater in ready room, and another in range area. Easy to bring it from ambient to 50 or so in fifteen minutes, and holds well (apparently the building is well insulated0. This is central Montana.

Probably don't want over 65 degrees for rifle shooters, as the clothing is warm.

My shop (airgun range) is radiant floor, kept at 50, but it raises to upper 50s when I turn on the lights. 6" insulated walls and R40 in ceiling. It's the way to go if building new.

There are several brands of gas fired (natural gas or propane) radiant heaters similar to the electrics mentioned in other posts. Greenheck, Reznor and others make direct fired and indirect fired makeup air units. If the budget allows and you want to cut energy costs then look at a desiccant heat wheel energy recovery or run-around coil loop.

The indoor range I have just started shooting on has a thin wooden wall just in front of the firing point. There are doors which can be opened to fire through (at different heights for P, S and K). The firing point area is heated with a few electric heaters and it gets to a comfortable temperature pretty quickly. The idea is that the wall helps to avoid heat escaping into the rest of the 25 yeard range. I hadn't seen this anywhere before but it works really well.

Up here in the Great White North, in particular, in Calgary, our range was purpose built in 1983 and had to comply with a raft of municipal, provincial, and national standards. In fact the National Research Council of Canada set up the heating and air flow system for our range. The range is 10 position, 12 metres wide and 25 metre shooting distance - plus of course a few metres extra for backstop and shooting positions. Heating during use is by a roof mounted "make-up air" open flame system run on natural gas. Big fans run the air into the range behind the firing line, AND as vortex jets driving forward at the actual firing line, airextraction takes place at 5 metres forward and at the target line (25 metres). Lead in the air and on the floor has been tested on occasion and is a non-issue - way below established limits. When the range is idle, it is kept above freezing by a pair of overhead radiant heaters mounted half way down the range. As long as the gas is under pressure we have never had a problem. Startup routines involve flipping on switches for the roof machinery and setting the range temperature as cool as possible to keep the shooters happy and maximize economy. The radiant heaters are on their own thermostat set to 10-12 C.
We tend to think of it as the best range in western Canada.
Cheers --- Dr Jim

Dr. Jim wrote:Up here in the Great White North, in particular, in Calgary, our range was purpose built in 1983 and had to comply with a raft of municipal, provincial, and national standards. In fact the National Research Council of Canada set up the heating and air flow system for our range. The range is 10 position, 12 metres wide and 25 metre shooting distance - plus of course a few metres extra for backstop and shooting positions. Heating during use is by a roof mounted "make-up air" open flame system run on natural gas. Big fans run the air into the range behind the firing line, AND as vortex jets driving forward at the actual firing line, airextraction takes place at 5 metres forward and at the target line (25 metres). Lead in the air and on the floor has been tested on occasion and is a non-issue - way below established limits. When the range is idle, it is kept above freezing by a pair of overhead radiant heaters mounted half way down the range. As long as the gas is under pressure we have never had a problem. Startup routines involve flipping on switches for the roof machinery and setting the range temperature as cool as possible to keep the shooters happy and maximize economy. The radiant heaters are on their own thermostat set to 10-12 C.
We tend to think of it as the best range in western Canada.
Cheers --- Dr Jim

Sounds like a place I'd like to shoot, Dr. Jim!

In keeping with most places, our extractors are at the target end to keep the flow of air going away from the firing point. We have a couple of holes drilled in the wall which lets air through from the heated club room (rather than having an inlet/push fan from outside at the back of the range). Also a radiator at the back, so once you get a bit of throughflow, you have relatively heated air flowing over you, because you're sucking in warm air rather than outside air.

PaulB, I am familiar with your range, having shot bullseye pistol there on some cool nights with Karl W. many years ago.

You probably have about as good a heating system there as you can get for the circumstances. If the range was maintained at some reasonable temperature when no one was on site, many systems could work. That the range is only heated when somebody is there running the radiant heaters is a big part of the problem. Everything is cold. The shooters have the best benefit from radiant heat directly warming them.

I verified this with an H&V engineer who has spent more time at that range then I have and is quite familiar with the challenge. Send me a PM and I will put you in contact with him, he does know you.