TargetTalk

I have recently gotten into target shooting and plan to do bullseye at a local club. I purchased a Ruger 22/45 4.5 inch slab sided w/removable grips and weaver mount. I am now wondering if I must have a 5.5 inch or longer for 50 yard bullseye? I like the gun for plinking and will plan on using it for bullseye until budget allows another firearm. Should I have extreme length envy or not work about it? I did have a bullseye gunsmith do a wonderful Clark trigger, sear, slingshot deal so my magazine falls out.

Based on what I have read, many recommend much more expensive pistols. I doubt I will spend over $500-600 on a target gun anytime soon. I still need the box and etc. I am partial to Ruger so a Mark ii or iii or a longer 22/45 might be my choice with gunsmith work. What are your thoughts, is 5.5/6.8 a lot more accurate than my 4.5 inch barrel?

Thanks

ronnielc wrote:I have recently gotten into target shooting and plan to do bullseye at a local club. I purchased a Ruger 22/45 4.5 inch slab sided w/removable grips and weaver mount. I am now wondering if I must have a 5.5 inch or longer for 50 yard bullseye? I like the gun for plinking and will plan on using it for bullseye until budget allows another firearm. Should I have extreme length envy or not work about it? I did have a bullseye gunsmith do a wonderful Clark trigger, sear, slingshot deal so my magazine falls out.

Based on what I have read, many recommend much more expensive pistols. I doubt I will spend over $500-600 on a target gun anytime soon. I still need the box and etc. I am partial to Ruger so a Mark ii or iii or a longer 22/45 might be my choice with gunsmith work. What are your thoughts, is 5.5/6.8 a lot more accurate than my 4.5 inch barrel?

Thanks

Read the rule book for the events you are going to be shooting. If they are non-sanctioned events then their are no limits except by the persons organizing the matches. The longer length will gain you a longer sight radius.

You're pefectly fine in every way with your present gun.

It is equally accurate as a longer barreled pistol.

The sight radius on your 45 is usually less than seven inches. How well do you shoot it ? Now measure the sight radius on your 22. I expect that you will find it to be very nearly the same as the 1911 and will give you the same degree of precision as the rest of your pistols so I agree with the previous poster for a different reason. Yes the 22 you are using may well be as accurate as one with a longer barrel but the only way to be sure is to test it with the ammo you are using. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Two glasses of wine down and no gun in hand. I must say that I have never had the pleasure of shooting a .45. I currently have only my removable grip 4.5 slab sided 22/45 and my Ruger LCR for CCW. My next purchase was to be a a longer barrel Mark III but since the pros say I should be OK with my current gun, I may opt for a bulleye bow and scope. When I feel good about myself and have tried a number of .45s, I will go there. Myshort .38 special is a nice firearm but a challenge for now.

I expect to own a .45 by fall 2011, after I get a Verizon IPhone.

Thanks

I shot an (out of the box) markII well in to expert class. Most high end euro pistols have short barrels, you money would be better spent on training ammo.

Dave C.

For the most part, modern CAD/CAM manufactured semi automatic .22 Kal. pistols with fixed barrels should give pleasantly accurate groups out past 25 yards. There are multiple points which contribute to the accurate firearm. For instance, my 60's issue Hi-Standard Trophy delivers one hole accuracy at 25 yards from a simple sandbag rest. My Trailside came with a similarly sized test target. My old SP22 Pardini has rifle-like accuracy as well. One "may" upgrade the Ruger which you own with sophisticated target grips which isolate some of the hand's muscularity and tension, allowing you to concentrate on proper grip. I have Nill, Rink and Herrett Nationals on many of mine. (pay close attention to thumb placement as you shop) The size and actual dimension of the front post in respect to the rear blade directly impacts "sight picture". This is true even more as the sight radius is longer when going past 5 inches! I view the Ruger as a predominately muzzle heavy weapon, which gives it a great advantage over more wispy models as the Trailside, for example. Trigger work is almost a mandatory job for the Ruger. Having installed the Clark trigger, I agree. The cost of ammo vs. the attained accuracy presents a challenge. I would strongly suggest the $14/325 rd. Federal Auto Match for starters. It closely resembles the old Federal Champion white box from the 70's. It performs well for me in my Pardini, Victor, Trophy, M-41s and M-17 Smiths. Good luck in your noble venture and hope you find a rewarding combination at your price point.

Although many will disagree with me, I think the longer the barrel the better (or lets say a more accurate pistol) . I have wrestled with this dilemma for decades. I have a mod. 41 with both a 5-1/2" Bull and the 7" barrel. Although the 5-1/2 barrel gives me a better "feel" and balance, I shot better ( 50 yards) with the seven inch barrel. Some argue that there is no difference, so I wonder why S&W makes a 5-1/2" and a 7", if there is no difference. Since I shot better at 50 yards with the long barrel, was the improvement due to the more accurate barrel ? The 5-1/2" barrel certainly felt better to shoot and had noticeably less wobble, but I did not score as well with it. Weird.


Obviously, the longer barrel increases the sight radius and therefore aiming accuracy at the expense of barrel wobble and whip. The short barrel is the opposite, less perceived barrel wobble (actually the same wobble, just the front of the short barrel moves less of a distance).

I never thought that barrel length was so critical to improved scoring until I shot a Steyr LP-2 compact next to a LP10 full length. Although the barrel was longer on the LP10, I shot better with the short barrel Lp-2. Since pellet velocity is so slow, follow through becomes even more critical with the long barrel. You may be better off with a less accurate short barrel than a more accurate long barrel. Now I say "less accurate" short barrel with a bit of humility. Both pistols came with test targets ( LP-2 compact and the LP-10) that had five shots through the same hole at 10 meters !!! So if they are both equally as accurate at 10 meters and I shoot better with the short barrel LP-2 , I'll stick with the LP-2 compact as my choice. Obviously my long barrel sighting accuracy was negated by my lack of follow through. The short barreled increased sighting error was negated by the fact that there was less time for poor follow through to move the barrel.

It would be great if there was data to show group sizes with barrels ranging in length from 5 inches to 11 inches, in 1/2 inch increments. I read somewhere that on a six inch barrel, a 1/100th of an inch sighting error of the front sight in the rear notch translates into 4" at 50 yards.

IF a red dot were installed, it would negate any difference due to sighting radius. I know it is theoretically possible to aim better with a long sight line, but I'm not sure it really matters in practice.

The Model 41 was originally made with a 7 1/2 barrel with muzzle brake. Then the 5 1/2 barrel was introduced to be legal for International Pistol or for those who preferred it. About that time the current long barrel was produced and had provision for a muzzle weight.

With my own Ransom Rest testing I found the longer barrel to be more accurate (as accurate as my Free Pistol), but I don't attribute that to its length. I'm currently experimenting with a fire-lapping program to improve the short barrel which I shoot only at the International 25 yard line.

Given the same inherent accuracy, A shorter barrel gives less "barrel time", which reduces the error caused by muzzle movement. Given the same holding error, a 5" bbl. will be twice as accurate as a 10" bbl. That's why some target rifles have "bloop tubes" to maintain sight radius, while reducing the bullets barrel time.

Paul

Here's a metric that I like to use:

The gun should shoot a group 1/3 the size of the shooter or smaller. If this is true, then the gun adds at most 10% to the size of the overall group (not 33% as you would think).

My limit for accuracy is a 2" 10 shot group (extreme center to center) at 50 yards from a sandbag. If the gun can do this or better, it's good enough to not significantly impact my score. Sure, a gun that shoots a 0.5" group at 50 yards is pretty cool, but it won't improve your scores enough to notice.

Steve.

When it comes to rimfire pistols, don't worry so much about how well a particular gun shoots but rather how well you can shoot it. Some prefer long barrels for balance and some prefer short. Some prefer a rake in the grip angle and others prefer straight military,some heavy some light. The trigger is more important than any of these things and the accuracy of the guns is the least because all of the rimfire target pistols will get the job done unless they are messed up.

tenex wrote:Here's a metric that I like to use:

The gun should shoot a group 1/3 the size of the shooter or smaller. If this is true, then the gun adds at most 10% to the size of the overall group (not 33% as you would think).

My limit for accuracy is a 2" 10 shot group (extreme center to center) at 50 yards from a sandbag. If the gun can do this or better, it's good enough to not significantly impact my score. Sure, a gun that shoots a 0.5" group at 50 yards is pretty cool, but it won't improve your scores enough to notice.

Steve.

"1/3 the size of the shooter" So I'm 6' tall, 1/3 would be 2'. So as long as my gun can hold 2 foot groups, I'm good right? Actually, if you can elaborate it would be appreciated.

My take on barrel length and that of many other old military shooters would be this. Longer barrels are probably more accurate, but proper immediate follow through become more imperative, hence they are more difficult for a new shooter to be accurate with. That said, they require the shooter to learn and implement precision in their usage.
This is why I shoot a 5' or 5.5" barrel; a 4.5 is more than adequate for a new shooter.

my experience has been pretty simple. the longer the barrel, the more accurately i shoot. i have several 12 inch barrel revolvers which are more accurate than the shorter barrel guns I use. And I prefer revolvers to semi autos. I also have six and eight inch s@w and Colt revolvers and they are excellent. Perhaps this has something to do with the iron sights I prefer. I have tried a red dot and it is surely more visible, but iron sights just seem to work better for me.

I encountered this recently. Someone else already noted, bottom line is: check rules for competition you enter.

What I learned was that for International Standard Pistol you can not have a barrel over 6 inches. The NRA Conventional allows up to 10 inches I think.

Again ... check the rules for the match you are entering.

Ralph