TargetTalk

Daisy Diopter Sights

I’ve posted on this topic on another forum and thought it might be of interest here as well.

The 853 rear sight is decent but it is easily damaged (plastic) with rough handling and has a lower sight line than the 753. Plus it lacks the rubber eyecup of the 753 model.

The 853 front sight is another story. The inserts are crude, unevenly punched, off center and appear more oval than round. The housing is crudely made and often won’t hold the inserts securely. (The easy fix for that is to bend the little retaining tabs on the inserts back a bit so they take up the slack.) The only plus I could find was the greater weight for a more stable hold. Crude as it is, it does work and a lot of shooters have been successful using them.

The higher sight line if the 753 sight is more comfortable for most adult shooters. You don’t have to crane your neck so far over. A more upright head angle also helps to control sway for a more stable stance. The composite front sight is quite nice with a good selection of well made inserts.

I have had two of the Avanti Precision Diopter rear sights purchased (2010) direct from Daisy that had excessive play. There was very noticeable slop in the eyepiece in both examples (and yes, the eyepieces were screwed in securely). You could wobble them side to side (almost 1/16” on the one!). In the vertical plane they were both ok with no noticeable wobble. Both would also hang up and not move for several clicks and then jump.

So, send them back and get two more from Daisy? Get a refund, bite the bullet and get the Gamo’s at three times the price? Or see what can be done to correct the situation?

I decided they could be made to operate satisfactorily with a little fiddling. I am an inveterate tinkerer and couldn’t pass up the opportunity to give it a go.

The eyepiece carrier rides on two vertical and two horizontal shafts, with one of the shafts in each pair being threaded to facilitate adjustment. The carrier slides on the fixed shaft and the threaded shaft controls its position. On both examples the horizontal shafts and bores were good with no noticeable play so there was no wobble in the vertical plane.

The slop in the horizontal plane, was caused by a poor fit of both vertical shafts in the housing. Both vertical shafts are held in the housing with tiny E clips at the bottom of the housing. The fixed shaft has a small stop flange at the top keeping it in place (like a rivet). It doesn’t move so shimming it is easy and a drop of Super Glue will keep the shims in place.

The threaded shaft rotates in the housing which is more problematic. The correct fix would be to drill out the housing and epoxy in a brass plug or peen in a brass “rivet“, drill and ream to fit the shaft, lubricate and reassemble………….not likely! I lack both the skill and equipment for that kind of work and frankly, the value of anyone’s time who does, would far exceed the value of the sight.

Soooo… little collars formed around the shafts from brass shim stock (I have a small assortment of brass shim stock which I got from my local hobby shop. It contains several small sheets of various thicknesses and cost around 3 bucks. I cut the shims from the thinnest stock with scissors.) A little trial and error, filing with a round jewelers file and a few test fits and all noticeable play is gone. Clean up the housing of filings, degrease the holes, the outside of the shims, and the area right around them. Lubricate the shafts, (I like lock lubricant which contains graphite It lubricates well and doean't gum up.) and reassemble leaving off the E clips. Carefully position the collars (top and bottom) flush with the outside of the housing sparingly apply Super Glue from inside the housing. (I used a tooth pick and the liquid Super Glue, not the gel. For me, it seems to migrate into the joints and to hold better than the gel which tends to only stay on the surface.) Be careful to keep the glue off of the shafts. Make sure the shafts rotate freely, re-attach the E Clips. Snap on the sheet metal housing and screw in the eyepiece. On one housing the holes were so badly placed that the adjustment knob dragged on the housing , which required filing the housing to get clearance.

Was it worth it?

If the sight was purchased new or came on a new gun, I would return it for replacement. Daisy Customer service is friendly and helpful. They stand behind their products.

If you already have the sight and you are willing to tinker, yes. The fix should be fairly permanent as the areas aren’t under a lot of stress and the brass is a better bearing surface than the aluminum housing. It’s a fiddly fix, but not all that hard to do.

Is it legal? I would think so. You are not modifying the sight from it’s original design, just fixing a QC problem and making it operable as intended. Check with your club to be sure.

If you can afford the Gamo (Crosman) version, it probably makes more sense. I haven’t seen any complaints about them and the ones I have seen are smooth and tight without play.

Hope this was helpful.
Fatman

Fatman .... a few years ago when I had received a batch of Daisy 887's I just returned the sights and Daisy sent me others. I had to do this a few times until I had all the sights that were tight.

At the time, if I had been a range officer in a match and you had showed up with at a match with the repaired sights I would have sent mine home with you to fix ... you are not adding functionality so your repairs are OK. Now if you were adding an extra ball bearing or placing extra notches in the knob to add "finer" clicks that would be different.

Today I have the Daisy's as "backups" in case a sight gets destroyed (usually a drop or someone who feels they can crank past the mechanical limit). I just go to Crosman and order the Spanish sights ... yeah they are pricier, but you get the front hood too. Not hardly any backlash in these like any Daisy sight.

Our air rifle program feeds our smallbore program, and I use the Gamos/Daisy's on the beginner 22's sometimes and it helps the kids quickly transition .... and those extra front sights come in quite handy

Mr. Martin
What are the Crosman Spanish sights? Can I use them in sporter? If I search Ebay for Avanti Daisy Someone is always selling Sights. What sight are those?
Thanks

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_P ... Sights/608
Well, they are more expensive ($99) than they used to be ($65). But I guess the weakness of the dollar gets us again. Yes they are sporter legal.

I think the ones on e-bay and such are the Chinese sights. (IMO garbage)

Nice thing is that these still take 18mm inserts.
If you can apply for an NRA grant, they are $75 in their Grant Store.

Unfortunately ... here as in most other places, you get what you pay for.

How can you tell the difference? .....
1) Older Gamos had an embossed oval on the rear sight just in front of the diopter that had "Gamo" inside the embossment
2) Current Gamos have the embossed oval, but no text
3) cheap Chinese garbage sight has no embossment at all, nice flat glossy top
(one day I'll take pictures.....)

Is the Crosman sight a bolt on? Is it any taller? 14 year old is allready 5' 10" His neck and head are at quite an angle. Is Pyramyd Air a good place to buy from?

Check http://www.odcmp.com/3P/Rules.pdf, page 10 for specifics legal sights.

Hi again:

The Avanti Sight fix was never intended as a way of bending the rules or of cheating. It’s purpose is to repair worn, damaged, or poor quality control examples of the Avanti Precision Diopter Rear Sight.

If your club is rolling in dough, has a waiting list for membership and can afford the best equipment that post wasn’t for you. For the rest of us, friendly competition keeps the game alive.

If your club is struggling for cash, struggling for membership and has to make do with inexpensive and used (worn) equipment, and is located in an area where the very word “Gun” is considered “Politically Incorrect”
it may be for you.

It’s hard enough for us to get kids interested in shooting at all. Most would rather be playing video games, texting their friends and watching TV. Although I doubt that we have any budding Mensa candidates, they’re not stupid. It only takes a few rounds of chasing a moving target (point of aim) courtesy of a loose sloppy sight for them to catch on and to move on. No amount of telling them to practice more and ignoring their protests about the sights being junk will convince them to stick it out. They’re smarter than that, they just move on.

If you have kids with the talent, will and determination to compete on a local, state and national level, by all means make sure they have the best equipment they or the club can afford, and make darn sure it’s legal. Nothing more demoralizing than being disqualified for some minor infringement you didn’t even know you were making.

Not a rant, just my take on the situation.

Fatman

This is the top view of my rear sight showing the embossed oval that jbmartin mentioned in his post.

Those of you who receive or download the CMP On The Mark magazine may read an article that gives me credit for the chinese sight fix.

While I don't know who he is, Fatman is the one who should receive the credit. I think I received credit as I had asked CMP to read the post & comment on it. Never heard from them until the article in OTM this month.

I just received two of the T200's from an NRA grant and the sights were an even cheaper version of the chinese sight. both sights are unusable and I went and pulled off some real Crosman Gamos off of a few of our 888's & put the original Daisy sights back on the 888s. Chinese sights are in the trash ... really irks me.

Turns out the smaller shooters I had on the 888's really like the original sights as they don't sit as high and they don't have to be tempted to lift their heads off the stock to see thru them. Back to the basics ... you learn something new every day.

Hi jhmartin:

Thanks for the mention. I was surprised to see the old post reappear. Hope it has helped some Daisy fans to get their sights operating properly as intended.

Cheers,
Fatman