TargetTalk

Posting this on behalf of a friend.

Anybody got any ideas:-

Pardini SP RF version, fails to eject a case but just spins it round through 90 or 180 degrees, causing a jam against the new round being fed.

This happens predominantly on firing the 4th shot but also happens on others.

At first we thought it was just a batch of fairly slow ammunition but it happens with several brands/versions of high quality target ammunition.

Happens with all magazines.

Happens whether the gun is scrupulously clean, shot-in or disgustingly filthy.

Tried lubricating the top round.

Tried changing the amount of lubrication on the slide.

Tried reshaping the extractor so that it doesnt slip off the rim before acting as the pivot for ejection.

Firing pin and all other parts are unbroken.

Tried reversing the magazine spring to make sure it was sitting correctly.

Any thoughts?

I do not own a Pardini, so this is just a thought.
Apparently it jams with all ammunition, made for RF of course. It's magazine independent.
Can the jam be provoked when a round is cycled by hand?
Is the extractor part of the magazine or of the gun?
I hope to have given you a small lead to a solution.
Guy

gn303 wrote:Can the jam be provoked when a round is cycled by hand?

No, but it's totally different. When shooting normally the case leaving the chamber pushes the slide (and extractor) to the rear of the gun. When cycling by hand the extractor pulls the round from the chamber.

They look the same action but are significantly different,

gn303 wrote:Is the extractor part of the magazine or of the gun?

The extractor is mounted in the slide (as with most guns). The ejector is part of the magazine.

Thanks anyway.

Had a similar issue on an HP conversion project switching to .32 ACP from .32L.

After numerous trial and error attempts changing and reshaping various parts, the easiest solution was to ever-so-slightly and carefully bend the ejector inward on the magazine.

Tilting the magazine protrusion inward about 10 degrees caused it to impact the case rim lower and more on the centerline, in effect causing a bigger "bite" on the case and forcing stronger and earlier ejection.

Might be worth a try on one magazine as an inexpensive fix. You can always move the ejector back if unsuccessful.

Keith

K5Tangos wrote:Tilting the magazine protrusion inward about 10 degrees caused it to impact the case rim lower and more on the centerline, in effect causing a bigger "bite" on the case and forcing stronger and earlier ejection.

Thanks Keith.

It's certainly worth trying and, with the shape of the Pardini ejector, very easy to do.

The extractor pulls case out and as I understand part nr. 716 - the reflector - forces the used case to rotate. Rotating case leaves the pistol.
Are reflector and spring OK?

Have a look at the ejector on the magazine, the inside of it can get a bit rough and cause ejection problems.

A light file can take the rough edge off.


Mikey

David Levene wrote:Pardini SP RF version, fails to eject a case but just spins it round through 90 or 180 degrees, causing a jam against the new round being fed.

In my pardinis that means new extractor and extractor spring are needed...
I normally try to extend the life of the parts by sharpening the hook of the extracor and stretching and annealing the spring, I am that cheap...
The extractor needs to be quite sharp.

One shooter had a problem similar to that described. It turns out that there was a burr in the hold for the extractor, or perhaps ejector, I believe, which meant that the action was inconsistent due to the part hanging up.

ruig wrote:The extractor pulls case out and as I understand part nr. 716 - the reflector - forces the used case to rotate. Rotating case leaves the pistol.

Thanks for your input but I'm afraid you are wrong.

The extractor does not pull the case out in normal firing. The slide , and the attached extractor, are actually pushed backwards by the empty case being blown out of the chamber.

During normal firing the extractor just holds the case in a consistant position and then acts as a pivot when the other side of the case hits the ejector.

I don't understand your reference to part nr. 716; that is the slide spring rod. On the Pardini the ejector is the part sticking up at the top of the magazine.

Thanks anyway.

As the ejector is part of the mag, could it be the mag isn't positioned correctly?

Try (if possible) firing with the mag pushed hard into the magwell.

Sounds far fetched, I know, but has the mag catch somehow failed and allowed the mags to sit below optimum position, therefore positioning the ejector too low which would deflect the case in a more upward direction?

Thats said, my Pardini came with handful of spare extractors. That made me wonder why...

My SP (2005) has functioned absolutely flawlessly since I've had it.

j-team wrote:Try (if possible) firing with the mag pushed hard into the magwell.

Sounds far fetched, I know, but has the mag catch somehow failed and allowed the mags to sit below optimum position, therefore positioning the ejector too low which would deflect the case in a more upward direction?

Not far fetched at all. It was one of the first things we tried. It didn't help though.

Thanks.

I think I had the same problem with my SP (not rapid). I called it "stove piping" because the smoking, open end of the spent case would stick out the side like a stove pipe.

Like you said, it was usually the fourth round fired, but occasionally others as well.

Contacting Larry's is pointless. There is no customer support there. They just want your money.

Replacing a multitude of parts and tons of gunsmithing did not make any difference. Finally the extractor spring crumpled up and the end of the extractor broke off. Another $35 to Larry's got a new spring and extractor.

Low and behold, no more stove pipes!

Thanks to everyone who has already responded (and those still to do so.

It is becoming apparent that the extractor and spring problems might be an "undocumented feature" on some SPs. I'll pass it on.

According to Larry Carter, all rimfire chambers are subject to 'peening', where the back end of the chamber eventually becomes smaller than the front end, making it difficult or impossible for the gun to eject a spent shell after it has expanded to match the size of the chamber. He said that this happens in the Pardini after about 4 to five cases of ammunition. And he reccomends having the gun re-barreled.

I had mine re-barreled once and the problem went away -- for about 25,000 to 30,000 rounds. Then it started happening again. Being cheap, I started investigating alternatives to re-barreling. It turns out that Brownells sells a tool called a '.22 caliber chamber ironing swage' to adress this particular problem:

http://www.brownells.com/1/1/18485-22-c ... menck.html

I got one, and it corrected the problem, at least temporarily.

I suspect that this problem occurs much more rapidly in the Pardini than in other pistols such as the Ruger, because the Ruger limits the firing pin travel which prevents it from striking the back of the chamber when dry-firing. Not only does the Pardini not limit the firing pin travel, but the slide doesn't lock back after the last shot, leading to the occasional accidental dry-fire when the shooter loses count of the number of shots that have been fired.

Regards,

Al B.

Not for nothing, but why can't you just run a chamber reamer in to cure a peened down chamber? A new barrel seems a bit excessive...

Steve.

Because it's much cheaper than installing a new barrel?

The advantage of the swaging approach is that it doesn't remove material. It will also tend to work harden the affected area, which ought to slow down a recurrence.

I haven't studied the Pardini firing pin closely, but I suspect it wouldn't be too difficult to stone the point down so that it couldn't hit the breech face.

tenex wrote:Not for nothing, but why can't you just run a chamber reamer in to cure a peened down chamber? A new barrel seems a bit excessive...

Steve.

I tried a chamber reamer before I got the ironing swage. Not only is the reamer more expensive, but it didn't remove any material. I.e., it didn't work. And 22 dollars for the swage is a lot cheaper than getting the gun re-barreled.

The chamber reamer only works well if it matches your chamber size & shape. There are lots of different flavors of "match" .22 chambers. A bolt action target rifle will probably have a tighter chamber than a .22 semi-auto, and in addition to overall size, they may or may not have varying degrees of taper built in.

For those folks with a lathe & some basic gunsmithing skills, you can make your own chamber swage. You need a rod which is moderately hard, and as close to the normal inner diameter of your chamber as possible. You grind a small flat on one side, just deep enough to clear the peened area, and then polish it up. Slide it in with a little grease, and then rotate the swage 90 degrees. This "cams" the displaced metal back into shape.

You could use a drill shank if you can get a good enough purchase on it to rotate it. Grinding a pair of wrench flats on it would work. The traditional design is L-shaped, and made from drill rod & then hardened.

I guess you need the right reamer. If you got a "match" reamer that was smaller than the original it might not be big enough to remove the "coke bottle" from the end of the barrel.

I'll bet a wooden dowel and some 1000 grit wet/dry paper and maybe some oil would do the job, assuming that the chamber was distorted from the slide hitting the barrel, not the firing pin. My pin can't reach the barrel, but the slide nails it once per magazine!

Steve.