TargetTalk

I have heard of this rifle and believe it is one that was recommended, but I can not find anything on it. Just a few references. Does this rifle exist?

Dan

It's the CZ/AA S200T. Daisy no longer imports it.

Sorry for the delay Dan. Yes that is the rifle that you looked at, at the club.
http://www.champchoice.com/prod-AIR_ARM ... -3220.aspx

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Arms_S200_Target/1402

This version is sporter legal and is the one used by the club. There is also a T200 Target version. Same rifle, but with an adjustable cheek rest. The T200 is not legal in sporter, but both can be shot in precision matches. I purchased mine (and I believe the club did as well) from Champions Choice. Loved working with them and would buy from them again.

Be careful there if you are shooting in a 3-P ARC (CMP) match .... 600fps is max and the T200 target lists 800 fps

Thanks for the replies.

As far as velocities, I noticed that one of the versions of this model was lower power, say, 6 or 7 fpe. Would this be legal?

There is a lot to learn about what we can and can not use.

Dan

I would think so yes....
I've asked CMP how we're supposed to enforce that rule.
You can't use a chronograph as they don't work near the muzzle of the CO2 guns (the CO2 jet messes up the readings)

Anyway, never seen that enforced or even attempted

Archerdan
I have read some of your posts and haven't seen any information on the age or size of your kids. We have a XVS40 in our 4-H club and fine it most useful for our smaller/younger shooter for the following reasons.

1) The gun is shorter than most other options so the ballance point is within reach for them but still heavy enought to provide stability for taget shooting.

2) Being a PCP they don't have to get out of position to pump the gun and aren't afected by the fatuge involved with that.

3) The grip is close to the trigger (which is very good) so smaller hands can reach it with a proper hand position.

4) The gun is acuate and reliable, ours has been in the club for 6 years with thousans of shots though it with not a single problem.

5) The kids like it, which is why we do this!

Caveman,

"Archerdan
I have read some of your posts and haven't seen any information on the age or size of your kids"

Boy, 9 years old 4' 5 1/2", Boy, 12 years old 6', Girl, 15 years old on the 30th 5'6", boy, 17 years old 6'4".

My Daughter Shows the most interest, followed by my 9 year old boy.

I am 5' 11". Was 6 foot in my younger years. :-D

That is good information on the size. I had the opertunity to try the trigger on the XVS40, I believe.
I thought it had a very good trigger.

Dan

Dan,
That's quite a brood, with a broad size range. Your daughter would probably benifit with a full size rifle. My 5'-3", 100 lb., 13 year old daughters' coach switched her from a anchutzs jr. to a 8002 (full size anchutzs) that I was skeptical about; her scores have proved me wrong! I also have a 9 year old boy that is 4'-8" and he shoots his best using the XVS40.

Some more input that you didn't ask for but...

When looking for equiptment don't forget to think of resale value.If you shop the used market you'll see that the good stuff is the real bargain. Also take advantage of those offers from the folks at your local club to try their equiptment. O yha keep it light and have fun!

PS I'm 6'-0" and pushing 50. How long do you think it will be befor I'm 5'-11"??

Caveman
Interesting about your daughter.
I'm 5'4" and I shoot a P70-Jr. I've shot the full size rifles, but the Jr just "fits" me better and is more comfortable to shoot. I did notice a few differences between my Jr AR and a full size AR, some that can be fixed others that can't.

Fixable:
- Muzzle weight. The full size AR have muzzle weights which my P70-Jr does not. I added 1 weight and am thinking about a 2nd weight, this gets the center of gravity (CG) more forward, similar to a full size AR, and it does what it is intended to do, dampen my wobble. I think my adding the muzzle weight was the biggest improvement I could do.
- Sight radius. The full size AR is longer. You could put a barrel extension on a Jr rifle to get the sight radius to match. I think using a smaller front aperture would have a similar effect.
But interestingly, this could work in reverse, as there are APs with SHORT barrels and thus shorter sight radius than the standard APs. But in this case, I think a larger front aperture would have a similar effect.
I think the exception to the barrel length/sight radius difference is, the Tau-200 Sr and Jr where I think the barrel length is the same.
- Weight. The full size AR is obviously heavier than a Jr AR. And quoting my old coach "weight is your friend." You could put lead weights into the stock to bring the weight up.

NOT fixable:
- The pistol grip of the Laminated stock P70-Jr (and most similar Jr air rifles) is an ambi grip. The ambi grip on the P70-Jr is definitely not as comfortable and controlable as the true right hand grip of a full size AR. IMHO this is an important item, and is the ONE thing that I do not like about my P70-Jr. I do not know how the ambi grip of the Anschutz and Walther Jr ARs feel. I think the aluminum frame Jr ARs have a dedicated RH or LH grip which would be the best.
- Length of Pull. If you are small like me, a full size AR could be uncomfortable. And this gets even worse when you add the bulk of the jacket into the LoP. The receiver/rear sight and the CG goes further forward. If you have a laminate stock you can cut the stock shorter, not so with an aluminum stock.
- Some of the best advancements are on the full size ARs but not Jr ARs. Example, the full size P70 had the recoil "eliminator" which the Jr did not, and from what I understood CANNOT (economically) be retrofitted with it.
- Adustability of fit. Many of the Jr ARs are laminate stock only, so you do not have the adjustability to fit that the aluminum stock gives.


I would love to put a full size upper into a Junior size aluminum stock. I think that would almost give ME the best of both worlds. Sadly that is $$$$ beyond my budget.

GaryN,
You know that I can’t get into her head so what is going on in there may be the reason her scores improving. The idea that her coach moved her “up” could have just given her the confidence she needed.

I work with other kids on the line (we think that it’s a mistake for a parent to coach their own kid) but can’t help but look over to her lane and see how she’s doing. What I saw was her timing, position, ect. Were fine but I could see the muzzle wobble. I just assumed this was caused by tremors caused by struggling with the weight of the rifle. When she first switched over her scores did drop a little bit, but I know that any time your tuning something you have to give it a little time to work; thing like body position and stock adjustments and so on to get used to different rifle. After a few relays I noticed the muzzle rock solid (this was on a kneeling relay a position she has always struggled with). After the relay she brought her targets up to me. I asked “Molly what did you do differently?” She said “Dad the front sight just locked on the bull, I just zoned out and nothing hurt and I was able to concentrate on that breathing thing you talk about.” One target was a 84 with a snow ball (out in the white) that she said “I held to long and knew it when I released the shot” the other was a 95. This was an over the hump moment for her and hasn’t looked back.

I think that the bigger rifle forced her to refine her body position (better skeletal support) but it very well could be that she just got into the mental aspect of the sport and it’s just a coincidence that happened when she switched gear.

Caveman
I think you hit on something.
The full size rifle being that much heavier really needs bone support, whereas the lighter Jr rifles you can muscle into position.

Eurastus let us take his Avanti 753 home to try. My Daughter commented that it was heavy and she was weaving all over the place while in a standing unsupported position. Her group was good some how. We will just try things and see how they go for now.

Dan

Funny thing is that the 753 is pretty light, as target rifles go. Wait 'til you heft my FWB 603 tomorrow at the range.

Eurastus,

Are you it’s ok to put those two rifles in the same sentence?

I would like to hear her opinion of the two.

Eurastus,

Your ok, I read that to quick, didn't see the period!

Sorry about the accusation:))