How does your club handle training policies? Do you have a written policy you are willing to share? Are all of your trainers volunteer (no pay), or do you allow them to charge a reasonable fee for their services? How do you deal with outside trainers? Do you have any conflict of interest policies prohibiting trainers from teaching outside of the organization?
Curious minds would like to know!
If you have anything you'd like to share via e-mail, feel free to contact me off-list at tellis1@nc.rr.com
How does your club handle training policies?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
This topic has become a major source of contention at our club. For many years we taught NRA courses - Home Firearms Safety, First Steps, Refuse to be a Victim, Personal Protection and Rifle, Pistol and Shotgun Instructor Certifications to the public, charging nominal fees to cover materials, range use and a little "profit". All the instructors and training counselors did this without being compenstated, i.e. all monies went to the Club. The Board did occationally allow non-member "commercial" instructors to use the Club without charge for classes that we did not teach because the instructor offered our members a discount. When our Board of Directors became aware that some members (some of our volunteers and others) were teaching classes at Club for their own financial gain they passed a range regulation that members could not do this, both because they did not want individuals cutting in on the club business and because of questions concerning legal liability. This made some people mad. Some started teaching classes at other locations. Some just kept teaching at the Club "under the radar".
Concurrent with this issue some of our officers decided to use our security video system (which was installed to find those misusing the facilities) to "catch" other instructors with whom they had "issues" doing things "unsafe" or "not within NRA standards". They then reported them to the NRA in order to get their instructor credentials voided or suspended. Obviously, this made more people even mader.
The Board then took the action of making rules that the video system not be used in this fashion but some officers continued to do so. Eventually, Club elections got most of these folks out of office but not before the Board mandated a stop to all formal classes at the Club until "things could be worked out".
The issues that we feal really need to be resolved before we start classes again are:
(1) does the Club's liability insurance cover this activity as far as any injuries to instructors, participants and bystanders and any future legal action that might be based on the instruction given?
(2) should instructors be compensated and if they are how does that affect the liability issues (i.e. are they "employees) and any other "employment" related issues (e.g. taxes, OSHA)?
(3) if we allow anyone to instruct non-members on the club property, compensated or not, what are the insurance implications? This applies to things like our junior program that we offer free to the general public.
(4) even though it is not "instruction" what are the liability issues with open-to-the-public competitions sponsored by the Club and competitions and programs conducted by "outside" groups that the Club permits to use the facilities (police, military, American Legion, Boy Scouts, etc.)?
Concurrent with this issue some of our officers decided to use our security video system (which was installed to find those misusing the facilities) to "catch" other instructors with whom they had "issues" doing things "unsafe" or "not within NRA standards". They then reported them to the NRA in order to get their instructor credentials voided or suspended. Obviously, this made more people even mader.
The Board then took the action of making rules that the video system not be used in this fashion but some officers continued to do so. Eventually, Club elections got most of these folks out of office but not before the Board mandated a stop to all formal classes at the Club until "things could be worked out".
The issues that we feal really need to be resolved before we start classes again are:
(1) does the Club's liability insurance cover this activity as far as any injuries to instructors, participants and bystanders and any future legal action that might be based on the instruction given?
(2) should instructors be compensated and if they are how does that affect the liability issues (i.e. are they "employees) and any other "employment" related issues (e.g. taxes, OSHA)?
(3) if we allow anyone to instruct non-members on the club property, compensated or not, what are the insurance implications? This applies to things like our junior program that we offer free to the general public.
(4) even though it is not "instruction" what are the liability issues with open-to-the-public competitions sponsored by the Club and competitions and programs conducted by "outside" groups that the Club permits to use the facilities (police, military, American Legion, Boy Scouts, etc.)?
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Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
Interesting reply! Change the scenario slightly, and we essentially had the same outcome.
We've answered some of the questions your folks are considering, such as instructors should have their own liability insurance (usually $150 a year), instructors being paid can receive 1099s (end-of-year tax forms) as contractors, both issues kill off the OSHA concern, the facility and the board members can be covered under a liability insurance umbrealla policy, Our Juniors pay $35 per season and the Scouts pay for ammo as well. We have 65 Juniors and run about 350 Boy Scouts a year through our merit badge program.
I'm curious how your club is incorporated. Ours is a 501c4 not-for-profit organization, and I think that's why there's a bit of confusion about having instructors paid for services. There's actually one proposed agreement that won't even cover a volunteer's expenses, be it books, handouts, or gas money.
It's my feeling that the club shouldn't dictate that club members or board members who are instructors not offer their services elsewhere for a profit. We actually had a board member accused of undermining the club's Training program by offering CCH classes for profit. In our state, getting a seat in any CCH class for the last year and a half has been nearly impossible - why make it worse?
Concerning the liability of having non-members shooting on the property, we have several matches a month, one that draws up to 120 non-members on a monthly basis. And that's an action pistol (USPSA) match!
The problem is that we hope to find a similar club that has gone through all of this before and perhaps can help both of us with some written policies that they could share.
And for those wondering why anyone would want to get paid for teaching a two-day Basic Rifle or Basic Pistol course - it's a lot of work! After volunteering the number of hours I do for our club in a year, being paid $25-$50 per student for two days of work is not going to make anyone rich, although everyone else who isn't certified may think so.
We've answered some of the questions your folks are considering, such as instructors should have their own liability insurance (usually $150 a year), instructors being paid can receive 1099s (end-of-year tax forms) as contractors, both issues kill off the OSHA concern, the facility and the board members can be covered under a liability insurance umbrealla policy, Our Juniors pay $35 per season and the Scouts pay for ammo as well. We have 65 Juniors and run about 350 Boy Scouts a year through our merit badge program.
I'm curious how your club is incorporated. Ours is a 501c4 not-for-profit organization, and I think that's why there's a bit of confusion about having instructors paid for services. There's actually one proposed agreement that won't even cover a volunteer's expenses, be it books, handouts, or gas money.
It's my feeling that the club shouldn't dictate that club members or board members who are instructors not offer their services elsewhere for a profit. We actually had a board member accused of undermining the club's Training program by offering CCH classes for profit. In our state, getting a seat in any CCH class for the last year and a half has been nearly impossible - why make it worse?
Concerning the liability of having non-members shooting on the property, we have several matches a month, one that draws up to 120 non-members on a monthly basis. And that's an action pistol (USPSA) match!
The problem is that we hope to find a similar club that has gone through all of this before and perhaps can help both of us with some written policies that they could share.
And for those wondering why anyone would want to get paid for teaching a two-day Basic Rifle or Basic Pistol course - it's a lot of work! After volunteering the number of hours I do for our club in a year, being paid $25-$50 per student for two days of work is not going to make anyone rich, although everyone else who isn't certified may think so.
Part of the answer depends on statutes in your state.
Both Wyoming and Montana have statutes giving protection to instructors who are not reimbursed. Clubs usually charge enough to cover expenses for the classes, and instructors donate their time. This eliminates the need for "professional liability" insurance for the instructors, and the clubs are covered by their general liability policies for the "trip and fall" risks.
If the instructor wishes to be reimbursed, he needs a separate professional liability policy.
Not all states have statutes protecting instructors. check with your club attorney.
Both Wyoming and Montana have statutes giving protection to instructors who are not reimbursed. Clubs usually charge enough to cover expenses for the classes, and instructors donate their time. This eliminates the need for "professional liability" insurance for the instructors, and the clubs are covered by their general liability policies for the "trip and fall" risks.
If the instructor wishes to be reimbursed, he needs a separate professional liability policy.
Not all states have statutes protecting instructors. check with your club attorney.