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New pistol by Khaidurov (designer of TOZ-35, AW-93)

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:56 pm
by abrakadabra
From the magazine "Rifle" 5/2008: http://www.gun-magazine.ru/art50804.htm

The whole world is going to see a new standard pistol created by Efim Khaidurov – a legendary person, a great marksman and coach, internationally renowned for the construction of Olympic revolvers and pistols. Bureaucrats, both in civilian clothes and with epaulets, have forbidden him to even think about making a new sports pistol; for the last 20 years they haven't allowed him to create in metal not a simple sample, "That's marvelous, but nobody wants it!" During those years, Russia fought with foreign enemies and separatists. Rivers and streams of illegal military weapons from ammunition depots have spread around the country.

But they, whose names hardly anybody remembers, were afraid to allow the famous athlete and engineer to work on a tiny-cartridge pistol. In spite of everything, without any help from the government and the military establishments, only owing to the support of the group of young enthusiasts, a new match pistol by Khaidurov have seen the light.


Excerpts from the interview with Efim Khaidurov:

To tell the truth, it's not very pleasant. I conceived this gun in 1988, at the same time we applied for a license. I worked at that time for DOSAAF. The police chief told about the positive decision and asked how to deliver the answer. I, frankly speaking, made a blunder and told to deliver it to Dynamo. A week later I received a call from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, "You application has been denied." That's how it finished.

The general who was the president of Dynamo told: 50% of the pistols will go to Dynamo, the rest for others. For example, I and Razorenov created eight rapid fire pistols HR-79 in 1979. Four went to Dynamo, others to the members of the USSR national team. HP-79s had performed beautifully at the world championships and the Olympics until 2004. But this time we got a denial – and that's it. Since then, I haven't been able to make anything; new license provisions appeared, the Conventional Weapons Agency intervened.

For the last 20 years I have felt the rejection of my name.

It all began at the meeting on a revolver. By 1961 TsKIB had developed 4 revolvers: Mts-4, Mts-4-1, Mts-2, and Mts-4-3. But none of them had been accepted by the leading shooters. As a result, the bosses from TsKIB insisted on a meeting at the Ministry of Defense Industry.

The chief engineer of Tula Arms Plant (TOZ) also attended it. The talk was for an hour and a half in high tone voices about well-known things. At the break, I met with the chief engineer of Tula Armes Plant, Vladimir Chernopyatov. He said, "...I can't understand what they want? Everything is so clear; we need to develop a revolver that meets the athletes' requirements. Do you have a wish to make it?" "Yes." Come to my plant, I'll give you an opportunity to work." This was in July 1961.

January 5th, 1962, I appeared at the plant. I was given a place at the design office. In February, the parts manufacturing should've begun; but nobody made them telling about busy shops. Then I decided to make them myself, as well as my free pistol (TOZ-35 in the future). The shop superintendent started to object. But the chief engineer Chernopyatov told him that I was a good milling-machine operator and a gauger; so, I should be given every opportunity. I started to make the parts of the revolver; and in June 1962, six months later, finished. By the way, you can see this revolver at the Artillery museum in Saint-Petersburg.

In 1962, I went to the World Championship with this revolver and won the second place. When I returned to the factory, the question about mass production was emerged. The production has started.

Earlier, before the work on the revolver, I asked Chernopyatov about the free pistol. He answered, "Bring it! We'll see." I brought the design drawings and two samples of the six improved, that I created in 1961 for the Army shooters. These shooters participated with them at competetions; and one of them, Stolupin, became the World Champion in 1962.

But the production of the free pistol wasn't in the plans of TsKIB. This is the very organization that stands on guard – "They won't pass!" In February, a designer from TsKIB told a constructor from Tula Arms Plant incidentally:
Do you want to play us another dirty trick?
What is the trick?
A free pistol.
What was the second trick?
The revolver.
What are you talking about? He's just started to draw it.

When Chernopyatov, as a chief engineer, made his own decision to start the production of the revolver and the free pistol, he got very big enemies. When I came to TOZ in February 1963, he didn't work there anymore! I was told that he had gone to Tula Polytechnic Institute due to an illness. The revolver was given the name TOZ-36. Eugene Metla started to to convert my draft drawings into the plant ones; and it happened so that the plant began mastering the production of two my products.

During the first half of the year the plant got the revolver, during the second – the free pistol.

The rest of the story was banal: the plant hadn't been able to fulfill the order; and without further ado restamped the numbers on the two my pistols made by me. They were sent as produced by the plant. The plant solved the problem; and now they lie somewhere. I left, and after a few months they sent two freshly produced free pistols with a note: "Due to the fact that your pistols were sold, we're sending you two new ones." Briefly, this is my story of the relationship with the plant at that time.

Since then, my relationship with the plant has become very strained. I had good relationships with all workers at the plant, except the Deputy Chief Engineer. The name TOZ-35 was his trick, it should've be named Tkh-62. There is a rule in Russia: TT (Tula, Tokarev), TK (Tula, Korovin)... By analogy, it should've included the year. But this name hadn't passed, an agreement was made to stamp TOZ-35, and add the name of the designer in the passport. At first glance, it seemed to be a small change; but the life proved it different. A year after year, they forgot to put the designer's name into the passport. After a while, the plant designers came to believe firmly that these were all plant designs, because only they could design such a pistol and a revolver, the weapons of champions (Khaidurov hasn't received any money for the designs). I looked through my fingers at all this at that time...

Now about the new pistol

We kept the moving mass, which takes the hit of the bolt. The bolt looks like the one from IZH-KhR-30. All positive solutions was taken from it, the configuration was changed. We made an innovation: we improved the compensator – it's more efficient. Besides, in the rear sight can be made wider or narrower. When you change the width of the slot, its center must remain. It's funny, but we wanted to incorporate this idea with Razorenov back in 1964 – with one screw. The secret is in a very simple device, but it requires absolutely accurate machining. Moreover, the sight has the ability of a quick move from the shooting at a round target to the rapid shooting. This was done to decrease the number of adjustments while moving from one event to another.

And there is another improvement: the trigger mechanism has only one sear, the character of the trigger was changed. The long plate-type spring, which presses on the sear, bends, and the point of the contact as if rolls on the sear. At first, the trigger pressure is 400-500g; and it ends with the pressure of more than 1000g – everything is very smooth. Everybody strives for a good trigger action, and everybody wants it short. As a coach, I don't like short trigger actions. A short trigger action requires a shooter to catch a moment of the best position of the front sight against the target, which leads to an error – twitching.

I think that the ideal trigger action is when a shooter doesn't know exactly when a shot happens; so, he will develop the element of unexpectedness of a shot. It's just a psychological aspect, when a shooter knows what he's doing.


Photos:
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Interesting facts:
* Efim Haidurov was born in 1925.
* He designed and milled himself the free pistol Kh-1MT as his diploma project at the University. Later it became TOZ-35.
* He lives in a small apartment with two rooms: 9 and 14 square meters.
* Neither Khaidurov, nor Razorenov have received money from the sale of AW-93. When Razorenov's widow came to Germany in 1994, Jorg Altenburger, one of the brothers, owners of Feinwerkbau, wrote her a check for 1.500 marks. After half an hour, he wrote her a more substantial check.[/img]

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:20 pm
by abrakadabra
Now Khainurov works for the company Demyan.
He wants to update all his weapons.

The name of the new pistol is SP-08 (Standard Pistol 2008).
It was introduced at the Shot Show 2009.
It's being tested by Mikhail Nestruev.
http://www.demyan.info/eng/sp-08.html

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Experimental variants:
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Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:03 pm
by joe1347
Maybe our host will start selling them shortly? Hint!

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:39 pm
by Tycho
Thanks for that article! Finally something interesting to fill the summer... would be great if Khaidurov finally got the recognition he deserves, not only on TT, but commercially.

The new Pistol

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:49 am
by 2650 Plus
I found the last two sentenses in the paragrapg about the new pistol most interesting. I am one of the shooters that has always used what he refers to as a short trigger. I am too old a dog to think of changing now but this concept would have been worth considerind fourty years ago. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:53 am
by Spencer
I had the privilege of handling the pre-production # 'a'0002 of the standard pistol recently - not all these pistols have disappeared with time.

Spencer

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:11 pm
by abrakadabra
Last news from Demyan, the owner of the company.

The experimental batch will undergo reliability tests till the fall.
All improvements and changes will be included in a new batch.
We are creating equipment for magazines - the idea to use the magazines from Smith & Wesson proved to be stupid.

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:48 pm
by bjsulla
Thank you abrakadabra for translating the article. It was worth the reading...

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:29 am
by David Levene
bjsulla wrote:Thank you abrakadabra for translating the article.
I would echo that, fascinating

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:13 pm
by ghostrip as guest
if it proves reliable i would propably make it my first standard pistol. i really like the izh-35, ksp-200, aw-93 design.

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:47 pm
by pilkguns
joe1347 wrote:Maybe our host will start selling them shortly? Hint!
I did speak with these folks at the SHOT Show back in January. At that time, they did not have a functioning model !!!!! because of the Russian weapons laws, but they hoped to have one for testing by spring of this year. The pictures you see in the photos look like the same (gun) they had at the show, but there was no chamber or barrel there.

When they get a production gun out, we will let you know. They also had a number of interesting air rifles as well, but all were prototypes, they wanted to know what was sellable in America, and of course they were thinking 10s of thousands of each. I am afraid that I burst their bubble.

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:29 pm
by abrakadabra
You already can buy their air guns for $1.200-1.500.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:24 am
by Wal
One of the best things in the aw93 IMHO isthe trigger which I have set up with long travel. It certainly alleviates the chances of chicken finger. Can you discuss the difference in recoil feel and recovery of the new pistol compared to the aw93?

Thanks for the story it was a good read.

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:07 pm
by joe1347
pilkguns wrote:
joe1347 wrote:Maybe our host will start selling them shortly? Hint!
I did speak with these folks at the SHOT Show back in January. At that time, they did not have a functioning model !!!!! because of the Russian weapons laws, but they hoped to have one for testing by spring of this year. The pictures you see in the photos look like the same (gun) they had at the show, but there was no chamber or barrel there.

When they get a production gun out, we will let you know. They also had a number of interesting air rifles as well, but all were prototypes, they wanted to know what was sellable in America, and of course they were thinking 10s of thousands of each. I am afraid that I burst their bubble.
Thanks for thinking of us. I suspect that plenty of us would abandon our Ruger MKclunkers in a heatbeat for the SP-08 that sounds infinitely better and will likely sell for less than $1000. Less than $600 would be even more appealling.

Personally, after shooting a Pardini K58 AP for the past month or so - my Ruger MKIII feels like a piece of cheap junk even with it's Volquarten sear and grip - and I'm certainly ready for a reasonably priced upgrade.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:23 am
by David Levene
joe1347 wrote:I suspect that plenty of us would abandon our Ruger MKclunkers in a heatbeat for the SP-08 that sounds infinitely better and will likely sell for less than $1000.
I'm interested where you got that price from Joe.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:32 am
by joe1347
David Levene wrote:
joe1347 wrote:I suspect that plenty of us would abandon our Ruger MKclunkers in a heatbeat for the SP-08 that sounds infinitely better and will likely sell for less than $1000.
I'm interested where you got that price from Joe.
I'm guessing - since it's Russian - a fair assumption is that it will be inexpensive. Otherwise, why would anyone buy it?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:17 am
by David Levene
joe1347 wrote:[I'm guessing - since it's Russian - a fair assumption is that it will be inexpensive. Otherwise, why would anyone buy it?
Russian goods are no longer necessarily cheap Joe, look at Scatt.

Why would anyone buy it? Because if the quality and design are to the same standard as his other guns then they will be great pistols.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:16 pm
by abrakadabra
Bad news.
A week ago, Efim Khaidurov fell down and broke his hip. Surgeons inserted implants and screws. We hope he'll recover soon. He's 84.

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:14 pm
by venison
Best wishes for Efim Khaidurov!

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:26 pm
by sha3banov 1