TargetTalk

I just returned from the Camp Perry smallbore prone matches where I witnessed (daily) poor range etiquette. Examples range from picking up brass to throwing down a shooting mat while the next shooter is still in position and firing the match. Whatever happened to just picking up your rifle and quietly leaving the line until the adjacent shooters are finished. This also applies to setting up while others are still on the line.

Perry has never been known for good range etiquette. With so many people, it seems they even space the annoying people out. Next year, have a talk with your Block and Line Officers and let them know that it's good manners to wait for the person on either side of you to finish before setting up or taking down. They should police that, it's not something you should have to worry about.

What is the problem with giving the offending fool a raft of your own. If you lay there and take it you're the fool, don't be afraid to "offend" the recalcitrant idiot. Let the "RO" know your opinions as well---and complain up the line---that non-functional "RO" just might not be invited back. A-a-a-a-r-r-r-gh ! "Doc"---Old, Crotchety Coach

ISSF rules say "leave equipment in shooting post" until officer declares match over. Then you pick up your's stuff.

But bad manners is the consequence of the "politicaly correct" atittude: give the bloke a second chance and, for sure, he'll do it again...

Camp Perry and the US NRA National Matches are a strange place to shoot. Advanced masters and marksman are often squaded side by side. The tales told around the matches abound and would be unbelieveably any where else. Just one is the tale of the Wimbledon The any sight 1000 yard match. The stort goes that the shooter fired his first shot and the target wasn't pulled. He asked for atarget service. The target went down , then came back up. The value of the shot was signalled a miss. The shooter asked for a rescore by the pit officer. The target went down, came back up and was again waved off as a miss. He fired his next shot with the same results as his first. Because this was taking up so much time the shooter complained about slow target service. He fired his next shot. The target wasn't pulled . he asked for tatget service the tatget went down, came back up and was scored a miss.same as before the shooter challenged the value of the shot. The pit officer checked the target and again signalled a miss. The shooter complained again about slow target service.to no avail. He fired another round and again his target was not pulled tha shooter got up went to the range officer and demanded to speak to the pits he brated the target puller then went back to the firing line. Suddenly a cease fire was called. target pulled had climbed over the burm, and placed a spotter at the bottom of the burm. The shooter had failed to place his 1000 yard sighting on his rifle. Oh yes, strange things do happen at Perry Good Shooting Bill Horton

2650 Plus wrote:Camp Perry and the US NRA National Matches are a strange place to shoot. Advanced masters and marksman are often squaded side by side. The tales told around the matches abound and would be unbelieveably any where else. Just one is the tale of the Wimbledon The any sight 1000 yard match. The stort goes that the shooter fired his first shot and the target wasn't pulled. He asked for atarget service. The target went down , then came back up. The value of the shot was signalled a miss. The shooter asked for a rescore by the pit officer. The target went down, came back up and was again waved off as a miss. He fired his next shot with the same results as his first. Because this was taking up so much time the shooter complained about slow target service. He fired his next shot. The target wasn't pulled . he asked for tatget service the tatget went down, came back up and was scored a miss.same as before the shooter challenged the value of the shot. The pit officer checked the target and again signalled a miss. The shooter complained again about slow target service.to no avail. He fired another round and again his target was not pulled tha shooter got up went to the range officer and demanded to speak to the pits he brated the target puller then went back to the firing line. Suddenly a cease fire was called. target pulled had climbed over the burm, and placed a spotter at the bottom of the burm. The shooter had failed to place his 1000 yard sighting on his rifle. Oh yes, strange things do happen at Perry Good Shooting Bill Horton

I think "tale" is the key word in that paragraph. To think that a cease fire at the national matches was called during the Wimbledon Cup for someone to climb over the berm is a little hard to believe. And that is an understatement.

Yes, masters are often squadded next to other classifications.....so what. Classifications have nothing to do with manners exhibited on the range. If someone is setting up (early) while the prior relay is still shooting, something should be said...and not just by the shooter that was disturbed. If YOU see such behavior, approach that person and make a kind recommendation that they have pleanty of time and that it might be distracting to those still shooting. That usually works, when you also add that causing a distraction can be a two way street.

jacques b gros wrote:ISSF rules say "leave equipment in shooting post" until officer declares match over. Then you pick up your's stuff.

I really wish I could find that rule.

The closest I can get is 6.2.2.3
"To ensure safety, all guns must be handled with maximum care at
all times. The gun must not be removed from the firing line during
the course of fire except with the permission of a range official."

The Chief Range Officer must permit shooters to bring their equipment to the firing point before the Preparation Time, providing any previous relay has finished. in 6.11.2.1.1 is starting to be enforced - even with 5m to the spectator barrier the changeover for some 10m relays can be interesting...

Courtesy and ettiquette seem to be left at the entrance to the Field of Play

Spencer

One point that should be clarified....Camp Perry is NOT an international style match, nor is it conducted under ISU rules.

Apples to oranges comparison for rules purposes, however that does not excuse the poor manners.

The key here is understand that shooters (like anyone else in this world) will behave badly until told to stop. Perry is full of young shooters who either don't pay attention to or are not aware of or simply don't care about proper range etiquette. Because of this, the range officers should be taking a proactive approach and educating the shooters as soon they start arriving first thing in the morning. There are some that do this but unfortunately some don't and consequently, experiences can vary from one point on the line to other points.
As for the older shooters that behave badly, a very short leash should be given. It's my experience that many younger shooters watch and follow the example of the older ones in the belief that "they must know what they're doing". This is where the range officers have to step in.
BTW, range etiquette should be taught to the newest shooters right along with the fundamentals. Good habits start early.....so do bad ones...

David Levene wrote:

jacques b gros wrote:ISSF rules say "leave equipment in shooting post" until officer declares match over. Then you pick up your's stuff.

I really wish I could find that rule.

The closest I can get is 6.2.2.3
"To ensure safety, all guns must be handled with maximum care at
all times. The gun must not be removed from the firing line during
the course of fire except with the permission of a range official."

Right you are, I did'nt find it either. Any way, that's the way we are shooting 'round here: wait until the match is over to remove your material.

If it is not in ISSF rules, should be. Any sensible person can understand that. The problem is the others...We have a member in my club that had a row with the administration for invading the kitchen and washing his hands in the sink.

Believe or not, a bunch of others supported him. An iron door was installed!

I don't shoot much competitive rifle, but shoot and instruct competitive target archery. When new archers are being instructed about what they will see at a tournament, line etiquette is covered extensively. In archery, once your arrows are shot, the archer is free to leave the line with their equipment. However, archers are not to: leave the line while the archer beside them is at full draw, or drawing; bump other archers with their bow, arrows, quiver, etc; or talk to the other archer. An archery line is packed in tight, with each archer getting maybe a 3 foot wide space (on a good day). A rifle shooter gets a whole lot more space. New archers are placed next to experienced archers all the time.

It all boils down to common courtesy, something sorely lacking today.

Steve N wrote: ..... However, archers are not to: leave the line while the archer beside them is at full draw, or drawing; bump other archers with their bow, arrows, quiver, etc; or talk to the other archer. ..

Yes this gives us a lot of trouble in Denmark, our judges complains if we don't leave the line immediately after shooting, so we often sight our last shoot a long time before leaving, to avoid disturbing our fellow archers.

I'll be talking with the Chief Range Officer for the Camp Perry Smallbore matches tomorrow. I'll pass on the comments.

It can be as simple as no-one has ever told them off.
I've seen at one match where one shooter was swearing at every missed shot, his neighbor ( A very high ranked shooter) said nothing.
Until that is he was off the range and in a low voice proceeded to slowly tear him a new arsehole.
The swearing stopped, hell the guy hardy spoke for the rest of the weekend.

his neighbor ( A very high ranked shooter) said nothing

That sounds goddam un-Australian.

The high ranking shooter was a member of my club. I saw that he just waited until he was off the range and the clubroom so not to accidentally interfere with the rest of the range still shooting before he let fly with his "comments" to the swearing shooter.

I was quite luckily to have shot quickly and saw the whole thing, I knew he had a way with words and I never wanted to be at the receiving end.

What I have done- and I don't know if it is "proper" or not- is to simply leave the line when I am done shooting and leave my kit up at the table.

When there is enough "clear zone" around my gear (3 or so shooters both to left and right are done shooting also) I will quietly remove everything but the firearm (depending on range rules).

However

I do see a lot of shooters quit shooting and begin noisily packing everything up while shooters to their immediate right and left are still trying to concentrate . . . .

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:What I have done- and I don't know if it is "proper" or not- is to simply leave the line when I am done shooting and leave my kit up at the table.

When there is enough "clear zone" around my gear (3 or so shooters both to left and right are done shooting also) I will quietly remove everything but the firearm (depending on range rules).

However

I do see a lot of shooters quit shooting and begin noisily packing everything up while shooters to their immediate right and left are still trying to concentrate . . . .

I normally leave everything in place until told to pack up at the end. Unless I have another competition starting shortly that I need to get to - then I wait until I don't disurb others. In the latter case I make sure to tell the RO before I start the initial comp to make sure they're OK with it.

Rob.

I hate bad manners where-ever,but some things are not bad manners. they are just annoying. a fidgity shooter next to you is annoying but if you are an experienced shooter they coud be naked and setting of fire crackers and it woud make no difference, because all you will be aware of is your target.
bad manners (etiquette) is usually a sign of poor education we must educate the ill mannered not bone them out.

Garry