TargetTalk

The lack of available ammunition and reloading components are throwing a crimp in my training. Is this a problem in other countries too? Does anyone have any suggestions, aside from dry fire, to reduce the amount of rather scarce ammunition required for training and yet continue to benefit from training?

Local stores are out of stock more often than not. Online merchants will have stock one week but will be sold out the next. I don't want to add to the "horder" element but I've been buying Standard Velocity CCI in 500 round bricks , which don't really last me all that long ( I understand that most serious competitors will buy 5,000 round cases of favored lot numbers, but that is well beyond my means)

How do you deal with the issue?

I could put a wolf spring in my 41 and shoot cheaper high velocity which might be a bit easier to come by, but I feel that might be counter productive, at least in rapid fire.

Or I could cncentrate on trap until a steady, reliable supply of .22lr ammunition returns . The funny thing is good 12 ga target loads are cheap and plentiful in my town, but powder and primers for reloading aren't

Have you had to reduce your ammunition consumption is response to this sorry state of affairs, and if so, how did you do it?

John Kasaian wrote:Have you had to reduce your ammunition consumption is response to this sorry state of affairs, and if so, how did you do it?

Yes. Ammo availability has become an issue with me as well with .45 and even 9mm becomming priceless unobtanium and primers as rare as hen's teeth.

.22 is still available locally if you shop around. I picked up a brick of Wolf MT a few days ago at a reasonable price and it wasn't the last on the shelf.

I know there are differing theories about using an AP for firearms practice, but I ended up headed in that direction and now find that I really enjoy AP too (see my thread on the topic of how front heavy the damn things can be ;) ).

Sooner or later saturation will be reached among hoarders, the ammo manufacturers will catch up, and ammo will return to the distribution chain. I doubt the prices will come down much though. In the mean time, all I can say is shop around to find what you can, and consider AP.

Here in Utah there's an ad on the radio for a local gun shop, playing off of fear; "you might not be able to buy ammo soon, but don't worry, we currently have over a million rounds of 223." The local Cabela's is well stocked as is Sportsman's Warehouse. Prices are higher. Lead shot is quite pricey as is powder. That's to be expected if demand outstrips supply.

If the scare goes away and demand drops 'normal' levels again, hopefully we'll see things wells stocked and prices more in line. That's probably at best case, just over 3 years away. Either that or we'll be turned into the experiment gone bad over in the UK and we won't be able to buy anything.

John Kasaian wrote:The lack of available ammunition and reloading components are throwing a crimp in my training. Is this a problem in other countries too? Does anyone have any suggestions, aside from dry fire, to reduce the amount of rather scarce ammunition required for training and yet continue to benefit from training?

Local stores are out of stock more often than not. Online merchants will have stock one week but will be sold out the next. I don't want to add to the "horder" element but I've been buying Standard Velocity CCI in 500 round bricks , which don't really last me all that long ( I understand that most serious competitors will buy 5,000 round cases of favored lot numbers, but that is well beyond my means)

How do you deal with the issue?

I could put a wolf spring in my 41 and shoot cheaper high velocity which might be a bit easier to come by, but I feel that might be counter productive, at least in rapid fire.

Or I could cncentrate on trap until a steady, reliable supply of .22lr ammunition returns . The funny thing is good 12 ga target loads are cheap and plentiful in my town, but powder and primers for reloading aren't

Have you had to reduce your ammunition consumption is response to this sorry state of affairs, and if so, how did you do it?

John, have you considered a NOPTEL or one of the other shooting trainers? I have had mine for less than two weeks now and am totally addicted to it. It is better than dry fire because it is interesting and gives you lots of feedback about your hold and your trigger pull. It allows you to train at will without the hassle of going to the range and shoot too long sometimes where you are tired and cranky after a day at work. It has increased my actual training time by about a factor of ten and I think will give my much better results in the matches this summer than I could have achieved in several years with live fire and dry fire only. Isabel.

I have heard that the ammo issue is related to the world-wide shortage of acetonitrile, an organic solvent used in many industrial applications. (Evidently a major supplier in China had a factory explosion and supply is very tight.) I don't know if acetonitrile is used in ammunition production, but if so this is a reasonable explaination.

Dave Tubbs is reported to shoot his FWB far more than his high power guns. So far, I don't think there is a shortage of pellets (and, certainly not air).

I also shoot high power. There does seem to be a severe shortage of bullets. For both that reason and to reduce costs, I have used some less expensive bullets with excellent results. You don't have to shoot Sierras to shoot well. In my last M1 Garand match for the prone slow fire portion I shot 99/100 (missed a 10 by a whisker I am told) and 100/100 in the Springfield match (shooting the same gun). In both cases, this was using an inexpensive 168gr bullet. I have also had good results using the Hornady "bulk" bullets (ignoring the canelure location).

Bottom line: Don't be a snob on who made the bullet!

Best,

Joe

Conversation from my concealed handgun license class a few weeks ago:

Me: "Where the heck'd you get .45 ammo?!"

Fellow classmate: "Where the heck'd you find .380 ammo?!"



Even the stores that are stocking it around here seem to be astronomically high. I hit up a few sporting goods stores in North Carolina last week as well, and my jaw nearly hit the floor when I saw some of the ammo prices. Probably cheaper and easier to start shooting hens' teeth.

I've had no problem getting match-grade ammo. It's the low-end plinking ammo that is hard. My advice would be to hit Champion's Choice or one of the other dealers catering to precision shooters - they have excellent prices.

Mike M. wrote: - they have excellent prices.

I wouldn't call their prices excellent. They are at least twice the price they were 2 years ago.

Not much else has risen that much in price in the last 2 years.

The lack of available ammunition and reloading components are throwing a crimp in my training. Is this a problem in other countries too?

Here in New Zealand prices have also rocketed. I had hopes at the start of the year that things would not get too crazy because of the dramatic fall in the world prices of lead, copper and zinc since their highs in mid-2008 - but things have gone nuts. For the most part many shooters are not too concerned if only because a huge proportion of the shooting that gets done here is game hunting and most hunters use very moderate amounts of ammo compared to target shooters. Despite the prices, most of what I need at least seems to be in-stock somewhere. 1000 Winchester or Federal small-pistol primers are currently the equivalent of about US $50.

Hiya,

I read an article in I think the WSJ the other day that reported that ammo and supplies are being purchased in bulk by investment brokers to replace finance securities that have fallen on hard times.

So, as soon as components are available they are purchased and stored until the price goes up. Some investors are reporting 50 to 100% profit in the 6 to 12 month term which is a lot better that taking a loss in the market.

Tom

#1 Our brass was being ground up and sent to China, Brass that was once used for reloads, that problem has been solved! But it seemed to have created a run on ammo, (like housing, stock market, etc) #2 At the same time the company that makes almost all the primers was shutting down (like it does every year) for retooling and employees vacations. They are now up and running again but a back log has occured do to the PANIC! It wont be long before everyone has a garage full of bullets and the store shelves are full! Look for ammo at yard sales in the coming years ! .......................... Im not Bob,

If you are simply looking for practice ammunition at a really good price you should visit the CMP website at http://www.odcmp.com where you can buy a case (5000 rounds) of Aguila 22 LR for under $189 although, looking now at the website, it does indicate that the ship time could be a few months. Still, if you can hop along buying your 500 round bricks while you wait for your order of a few cases, it may be worth it.

Paul

Just walked into our local store of the chain Dick's Sporting Goods and bought a case of .22 Federal Champion 714 for $250. Also recently got a case of Fiocchi 22CRN from Midway for about $270. Two cases of Agilla from CMP were had for about $210/case with shipping, but wait time was about 3 months and now is supposed to be around 6 months. Eley Sport from Champion Shooter's Supply can still be had for about $250/cs. I still am glad that I bought 15 ammo cans of 5,100 rounds/can of the old white box T-22 from CMP about 6 years ago for less than $100/can with shipping. All of this is practice ammo for juniors and college shooters at primarily at 50 feet and 50 yards. High prices for me is the $1500+ for a case of Eley Tenex (glad I have a good supply of the old stuff).

I have had questions regarding the fact of hearing about encoded ammuntion, will smallbore ammo have to be encoded also? Have not heard much about this but it is causing people even in our area to buy up all primers and reloading supplies and ammuntion, even the smallest shops are always sold out of stuff.

big52 wrote:I have had questions regarding the fact of hearing about encoded ammuntion, will smallbore ammo have to be encoded also? Have not heard much about this but it is causing people even in our area to buy up all primers and reloading supplies and ammuntion, even the smallest shops are always sold out of stuff.

If encoding legislation comes, handloaded or smallbore ammo is not an exception to the rule and all proposed legislation I have seen requires you to get rid of any unencoded ammo you have on hand by a certain date. Possession of an unencoded round afterward will be a crime.

Hate to politicize the discussion but if you want to continue target shooting actual ammo without taking out a second mortgage to buy some, get involved, write your elected leaders regularly and join the NRA.

Stockpiling or handloading ammo now is a waste of time and money in terms of a real solution.

Philadelphia wrote:
Stockpiling or handloading ammo now is a waste of time and money in terms of a real solution.

Actually, it's a great solution. If the "problem" is the government, the "solution" is found in all that Freedom you've stored up.

All this gun activity contemplates a "real world" application, if infrequently applied.

smoking357 wrote:

Philadelphia wrote:
Stockpiling or handloading ammo now is a waste of time and money in terms of a real solution.

Actually, it's a great solution. If the "problem" is the government, the "solution" is found in all that Freedom you've stored up.

All this gun activity contemplates a "real world" application, if infrequently applied.

Oops. Janet Napolitano just opened a new case file on you.

Doh! She just opened a file on me too! I hear helicopte . . . .

:-)

More seriously, revolution (or, with so many states passing states' rights resolutions, more likely civil war) is a true "doomsday" scenario. My "seat of the pants" is that the current administration is taking note of the number of these states' rights resolutions and is hopefully contemplating the fact that they can't just shrug off the legitimate governments of a number of states as "extremists" (although it was sadly comical to see a member of their illuminati try to label just about everyone else that way). If your state has not done so, consider asking your reps to sponsor such a resolution.

In those states where people in gov't view the citizens as enemies or suspects, and guns the evil instruments of the subversive and antiquated notion of freedom, vote 'em out of office. Your right to assemble (JOIN THE NRA) and to vote is the real infantry of protecting your other rights.

Oops. Janet Napolitano just opened a new case file on you.

Doh! She just opened a file on me too! I hear helicopte . . . .

That would be more in line with Bush's administration.
Where were you all freedom fighters then?

We're in for quite a fight, not only for gun rights, but civil liberties as well. I happened to flip by Lou Dobbs several nights ago and there was Hillary being questioned about a "global government". The only comment made was that Lou would have a field day with it. I heard nothing about the absurdity of such a proposal from Hill or Lou.