TargetTalk

I'm looking for a .45 carry pistol, but would like to have the option to use it for bullseye at a later date if I decide to do that. Will the Taurus work for me at 50 yards with some gunsmith work? I don't like guns that don't shoot.
Thanks!
Ben

Hi

Personally, I wouldn't even try to swap between a carry gun and a Bullseye gun. The main reason is cost, but the necessary qualities are different in the details. A Bullseye gun is made to fire lead (probably) semi-wadcutter ammo, while a Carry gun is made to shoot jacketed hollow points. The Bullseye load should be much milder than a carry gun. You want to hit the target, not knock it over. A Carry gun SHOULD have lower sights to make drawing easier etc. The sights on a carry gun are also PROBABLY going to be either white dots, Tritium etc. A Bullseye gun SHOULD have higher adjustable black sights. Secondly, the PT 1911 is a good $550, but around here now costs $650. I would recommend getting a used Bullseye gun (first), buying a Rock River or Les Baer, or thirdly, getting a bullseye smith to build you a gun on a Caspian frame and slide. These are in order of probable cost, not necessarily quality. I would buy the PT 1911 as a carry gun though.

Hope this helps

Mike
Wichita KS

Mike:

On the other hand . . . you *could* use your M1911 Service Pistol as a "Carry Gun." However, it would not be optimized for "Concealed Carry" based on the factors you already mentioned.

I am quibbling of course- I think the original poster wanted to use his carry gun "across the course" (not just Service Pistol) in which case the disadvantages of shooting iron sights in competition and/or mounting a dot on a carry gun (along with ammo issues you mentioned) would be quite a challenge.

Intriguing idea of course. Shoot your Service Pistol M1911 across the course *and* use it as your duty piece. Made more practical with recoil spring changes . . . and?

Definitely "Old School!"

Steve

[didn't a lot of the great ones from days of yore shoot across the course with iron sights? Hmmmm . . . ]

As I understand Ben's question it is - can I convert my Taurus 45 carry gun to a Bullseye gun in the future. Not - can I use my Taurus interchangeably between carry gun and Bullseye gun now.

I don't have an answer and would suggest that you pose this question on the Bullseye-L board where there are a number of gunsmiths who might have some experience with the Taurus 45 pistol and whether it can be used as the basis for a Bullseye gun.

I don't have an answer and would suggest that you pose this question on the Bullseye-L board where there are a number of gunsmiths who might have some experience with the Taurus 45 pistol and whether it can be used as the basis for a Bullseye gun.

Do what Fred said. I remember there being a few posts on Bullseye-L regarding the PT (IIRC) a while ago. These were motivated by some good reviews, and advertising, that promoted the pistol as virtually an out-of-the-box match pistol for $600, or whatever the price was at the time. But I haven't seen much posted on them since. I don't think that they caught-on.

That's not to say that it isn't suitable as the basis for a BE pistol - I honestly don't know - but it's not one that you commonly hear about.

The Springfield Mil-Spec is a good candidate for upgrading to a BE pistol that's in about the same price range.

Agree with previous post: Springfield Mil-Spec is a proven candidate for bullseye modification, and it's in the same price range. I've seen them under $500 new. The Taurus may or may not work out satisfactorily. Potential issues could include how close to original 1911 specs it is; frame pin hole spacing and diameter are critical. This can affect barrel fitting and trigger quality. Another issue may be steel temper or hardness. When fitting frame and slide, many import 1911s have been known not to maintain the fitting for long. This may or may not be the case with Taurus 1911. I've seen bullseye guns built on various well known import brand 1911s that shot loose within a single season. I do believe it is also an issue when building a 9mm ball gun using the Taurus 92 copy versus an original Beretta.
Also agree with Fred: check with some gunsmiths first to see what they prefer to build on as a foundation. Clark Custom Guns lists in their catalog which makes they will use.

If the PT 1911 is anywhere near the "quality" of the M92FS-clone I would never ever use it for competition.

My gunsmith tells me the Taurus is his top recommendation for an initial bullseye pistol. He isn't a big-name 1911 smith, but he does most of the bullseye work for our local club and has a very good local reputation. I've been happy with the work he's done for me.

I didn't make him qualify that statement, though. I don't know if he was basing his recommendation on the out-of-the-box quality compared to the price, or if he was basing that on the ease of future tuning. I get the sense he was emphasising the what-you-pay to what-you-get ratio, and the idea that it might just need a trigger job and not full-scale barrel/slide/frame fitting.

Personally, I'd save my pennies and get a U.S.-made gun, but that's an aesthetic decision not really based on anything rational. Most of my guns are ones my dad got back in the 50s and 60s, so I tend to buy with the thought that whatever I get I'll have for a long, long time.

-J.

As I said before, I don't have any experience with the PT 1911, but I've handled a PT92 and I found the following a little disturbing:
Frame to slide fit was... well.. none!
Slide to barrel fit was really bad with at least 1mm play.
The "adjustable" sight basicly adjusted itself between shots.
The DA felt like dragging a brick against concrete. And I'm talking about a very heavy brick! The SA was very light but still needed an extensive triggerwork.

Overall it sucked so hard that it made me feel notious. I've tested a Taurus revolver too, and compared to a regular out of the box S&W it had just about the same "quality" feeling about it.

It would take A LOT to convince me to buy a PT 1911 for anything that has to do with precision shooting.

"Buy quality and cry once", get your self a Springfield or something. Perhaps a little more expensive but at least you won't curse the gun everytime you shoot.

I'm looking for a .45 carry pistol, but would like to have the option to use it for bullseye at a later date if I decide to do that. Will the Taurus work for me at 50 yards with some gunsmith work? I don't like guns that don't shoot.
Thanks!
Ben

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Hi Ben

If i can give my 2cents :), I shoot bullseye also and I shot a Colt gold cup not because it may be a better gun that other just because I came across a good deal on the pistol I also have a Caspian etc etc, I have a freind that shoot the PT 1911 whe you look at the gun it seems to be well built for the money you may need to work on the slide to frame fit a little and maybe a trigger job but things like that can come as you get the money together for the gun smith. Now the one thing that will need to be done is replacment of the barrel get yourself a Kart and get it rebarreled and a lighter spring and you should be in buisness, the person I am talking about shoots x's & 10s at 25yrs and x,10,9 & 8's at 50yrd but please remember most of the time the gun can shoot better than the shooter take your time and get yourself up to speed and just keep your eyes open for someone at your club will be parting with a gun that has your name all over it, hope this helps.

Whitney

As to "the gun can shoot better than you can" by all means take your gun to the matches and you can drink coffee while your gun shoots the match.

The point is this: you add error to the system, and the gun adds error to the system.

Do you really want gun that is as sloppy as you are?

No, of course not.

How the heck are you going to improve if you are shooting a gun that makes the result of every shot a random event?

It's no "fun" at all if the result of a good shot is an 8, and a bad shot is a 9 or 10. Or vice versa; with no discernible pattern.

2.5" 10 shot groups at 50 yards, minimum, for a brand new shooter. 2" or less for when you want to start improving.

Steve

I, too, was hoping for a "one gun does all" .45; but I just don't think there is one.
So...I shoot BE with my Glock 45. I know, I'll never make Master with it, but-
I'm gaining proficiency and you could do alot worse than have me at your back in a real gunfight.
I'd ENCOURAGE you to shoot BE with your "carry piece"- it will instill more confidence in your carry rig every time you use it in a match.
Becoming the very best you can be with your "daily carry pistol" makes alot more sense and has alot more practicle value than entering an "equipment race" to satisfy some competition urge.
YMMV

Nobody Important wrote:I, too, was hoping for a "one gun does all" .45; but I just don't think there is one.
So...I shoot BE with my Glock 45. I know, I'll never make Master with it, but-
I'm gaining proficiency and you could do alot worse than have me at your back in a real gunfight.
I'd ENCOURAGE you to shoot BE with your "carry piece"- it will instill more confidence in your carry rig every time you use it in a match.
Becoming the very best you can be with your "daily carry pistol" makes alot more sense and has alot more practicle value than entering an "equipment race" to satisfy some competition urge.
YMMV

That is what I thought...and that is what I did........And that is what I would not recommend :)


Let me elaborate. I wanted to use a carry gun for BE. I firmly believed that "the gun will shoot better than I would". So I wanted to use a carry gun and improve. My choice: Beretta 92fs with a good trigger job (crisp 4lb SA)
unaccurized and with its original, non-adjustable sights.

As a reference I shoot BE rimfire league. I steadily improved over the course of 5 months in the rimfire league where I shoot a good gun (Hammerli SP20). My scores kept climbing, my understanding of shooting improved, and so did my confidence. Now I shoot in the mid 270 in competition. 5 months ago I was barely breaking 230.

Now to centerfire. In my first 900 NRA centerfire match with the Beretta I shot 668. that was 4 months ago. 2000 rounds and 4 more 900 matches later, I recently shot 666. I was shooting in the 650's in between.

The punch line is that I did not improve a bit. In practice it is about the same. good shot, bad shot, good shot.......shot off the scoring area, good shot, etc.

I feel that if all goes perfectly, I may AT BEST shoot ~ 720 with this gun. and that is if I perform flawlessly at my current skill level. It is very discouraging to see the fellows next to you shoot 850's, and you barely breaking 700 on a good day (i haven't yet).

the real sinker, is that I do not know if I made a mistake, or if the gun shoots at random pretty much ( in BE accuracy expectations). So how do you correct you shooting when you do not know what's the cause?

I just put a lot of money into a custom BE gun from an outstanding BE smith. I am still waiting for completion of the project but I expect my centerfire experience to mimic my rimfire experience closer. I.e. I expect to see steady improvement in scores over time.

Now these are my experiences, and there may be folks around that will shoot 800 with an M9 right off the box, but I am not one of them, and I think for a person still trying to learn the basics of BE shooting, an accurate, well made BE gun will go a long way.

By the way, the Beretta shot better than most people expected, but still not good enough for BE.

The good news is that I got to shoot and I got to meet many nice people. I also learned to appreciate the amount of work needed to make a BE gun from a "carry" gun.


Best,

Alexi

"shot off the scoring area"
Well, it doesn't sound like my plan worked out so well for you...
I guess I should have mentioned that the carry pistol should have some "minimum accuracy" standard.
In the "EIC"(I guess that's what they are called now, instead of "leg matches") you gotta use a "service " style pistol-others here may chime in and offer all the specs...
To me, a "Service" pistol is a perfectly acceptable "carry gun"... and those "upper" scores are certainly better than the performance your pistol has been giving you.
For me, my carry piece has to be darned accurate-my Glock will hold 4" at 50yds with factory loads(WWB)...NOT near BE accurate, but good enough for street work.
Sounds like you are shooting OK, but your gun isn't. I know the AMU has some of it's shooters using the Beretta platform, so those pistols CAN get the job done...Good Luck!

Freepistol wrote:I'm looking for a .45 carry pistol, but would like to have the option to use it for bullseye at a later date if I decide to do that. Will the Taurus work for me at 50 yards with some gunsmith work? I don't like guns that don't shoot.
Thanks!
Ben

Hi y'all. Noobie here. I would like to offer my opinion on this subject. 1st, I am a rifle shooter. I've shot Hi-power for 20 years. I shot my first Bullseye match yesterday. It was fun and I'm sure I'll do it again. Man, 50 yards is a long way for a pistol. :-) I used my Ruger MKII and my, brand new, PT1911. Being a rookie, I can't really comment on the gun although all 180 rounds went off with no problems.

I'm not sure why you would want to carry one of these. It's big. It weighs almost 3 pounds loaded. My carry gun is a Hungarian PA-63. It is small and cheap. It weights less than 1.5 lbs loaded and it was $150. The 9x18 Makarov cartridge Is not the most powerful in the world but it will do the job if needed.

So, the moral of the story is that for $650 I have a respectable, entry level, competition gun ($500) and a very serviceable carry gun.

Comments?

Nobody Important wrote:"shot off the scoring area"
Well, it doesn't sound like my plan worked out so well for you...
I guess I should have mentioned that the carry pistol should have some "minimum accuracy" standard.
In the "EIC"(I guess that's what they are called now, instead of "leg matches") you gotta use a "service " style pistol-others here may chime in and offer all the specs...
To me, a "Service" pistol is a perfectly acceptable "carry gun"... and those "upper" scores are certainly better than the performance your pistol has been giving you.
For me, my carry piece has to be darned accurate-my Glock will hold 4" at 50yds with factory loads(WWB)...NOT near BE accurate, but good enough for street work.
Sounds like you are shooting OK, but your gun isn't. I know the AMU has some of it's shooters using the Beretta platform, so those pistols CAN get the job done...Good Luck!

If your "out of the box" glock can keep a 4" group at 50yrds, I am genuinely impressed. The Glocks I have shot did not behave as well as the beretta, at least in my hands. Maybe its just my familiarity with one gun and not the other.

The factory standard at Beretta is 8 inches or less from 10 shots at 50 yards. that should be pretty much on par or better than most "service" platforms out there. I have never done a ransom test with my gun but I feel it will hold ~2.5-3 inches at 25 yards. On a good day I can get 20 consecutive shots in the black of a B16 target (slow fire target at 25 yards) with the Beretta. Not something to write home about, but suggests that the gun can hold the black if I can shoot it properly.

My irritation is that shots are all over the black (no consistency), and that it takes seemingly very little to send a shot outside the scoring area. That is what I was referring to in my original post. If I have a shot outside the scoring rings, I obviously messed up, but did I mess up THAT badly? Maybe, maybe not. I can only guess what the contribution of the gun was.

Beretta 92fs (M9) is used in the EIC competitions by many shooters with great results. virtually all of these guns, however, have been accurized to hold 1.5-2 inch groups at 50yards with appropriate reloads for 9mm ball ammo. Getting such gun is high on my priority list.

best,

Alexi

Well......... 6000 rounds through my pt1911 not one misfire or jam, but I'm not say every pt1911 are the same. Put it through 300 rounds S/W feed great. This days I hear lots of some thing happened with pt1911 and the customer service is bad though it did come with life time warranty. Asked some replacement parts last year have not see it yet. Anyway, buy the gun then sent to Clark to tuen up for $400. $1100 for two ince result, I think it it cheap.

The sights on a carry gun are also PROBABLY going to be either white dots, Tritium etc. A Bullseye gun SHOULD have higher adjustable black sights. Secondly, the PT 1911 is a good $550

If you want to shoot practice with your carry gun, either shoot IDPA or steel challange because it is set up more like you would shoot to protect yourself. Bullseye is completely different and needs an accurate gun with accurate bullets and a proper trigger or it will be demoralizing. -- Bill --

Buy a springfield range officer, its accurate enough out of the box for bullseye and would be a great carry gun, dont ever let the gunsmith who told you a taurus was his no1 pick for a 1911 ever touch a gun of yours he is a idiot.