TargetTalk

I don't know if this is a mechanical problem or a mental problem.

I shoot at a weekly bullseye pistol league, and I take down and clean my High Standard 107 Trophy (Hamden vintage) after each night of shooting.

The question that I have is my first target (generally slow-fire) is usually a mess the next time I shoot. I shot a 50 last night. My average for slow fire usually runs in the low 70s, not great but clearly better grouped than my 50. By the second target (timed fire) it's settled down.

My question is, could this be the barrel settling down and re-seating itself after take-down, or is this more likely me settling down after negotiating rush-hour traffic on the way to the range? I guess I could leave it dirty and see if I shoot straighter the next week.

If it's the former, any suggestions on ways to ensure proper barrel seating after cleaning?

If it's the latter, I guess that's my problem.

Thanks.

-J.

J,
I have a high standard citation and experienced the same thing. I have put it on a ransom rest and yes, the first shot after taking the barrel DOES affect the shot. The way I have found to solve this (without actually firing it ) is to use the plastic .22 dummy rounds and dry fire it several times. This tends to settle the barrel back in.

Why do you feel a need to remove the barrel for cleaning? After shooting my 22 in a match, I clean as follows - a 25 bronze brush bent at a right angle about 3/4" from the tip, to clean the chamber; a few passes with patches on a pull through; toothbrush on the bolt face and ejector to remove debris. This worked just fine on my M41. Took it down at the end of the season for a thorough cleaning.

After removing and replacing the barrel on my High Standard, I let the slide slam against the barrel from fully open about five or ten times. I feel that duplicates the firing of live rounds (as far as seating the barrel).
An additional consideration: I've found that if I use any cleaning or lubricating agents in the barrel, the first few shots (at least) have a different point of impact than succeeding shots - even from those guns that have a non-removable barrel. There is an often repeated adage: "Never clean your barrel just before a match." While I'm sure that statement can be challenged, since you are having a problem, why not put some 'fouling' shots through the barrel after you clean it - but before you shoot for score?
You might even try going 500 rounds, or more, before cleaning. In my experience, High Standard pistols do not need to be meticulously clean.
Mike T.

http://www.histandard.info/manuals/

The above site has numerous Hi Standard manuals and schematics. You may find them helpful.

John

Your best bet is to actually fire a clip of LIVE ammo through your gun to "season" the barrel. Cleaning the chamber and barrel will cause some erratic shots. Try only cleaning the chamber, not the entire barrel. This should help.

I also shoot a HS,SMITH41,Benelli as for cleaning them I almost never clean the barrel, you may ask why if you look at the ammo your shooting most good ammo have a wax coating on them so once your pistol shoots a good group you should just leave it, clean the chamber, the bolt face and just leave it like that, now if you feel the need to clean your barrel then you should at fire a box of ammo through it so you can get your group back for the next match.

I found it took 20 or so shots for my HS106 to settle back in after cleaning the bore. And this goes back to the early 70s. You do not need to clean the bore all that often. If you do, foul it with several shots. and check your zero.

Sure that initial crappy SF target isn't just match nerves? At the level of shooting you say you are at, I doubt that the clean barrel has much effect on your scores.

I will probably bring down the wrath of some on the board, but IMHO, a lot of the stuff I hear about pistol accuracy--matching ammo to gun, keeping the barrel clean (or, conversely, leaving it dirty) is just voodoo. Unless you are a master class shooter, these things aren't going to make much difference in your scores. Prone smallbore rifle? You bet. Free pistol shooting at the national or international level? Sure. Otherwise, just pay attention to watching that front sight (or red dot) and squeeze 'em off.

10's,
Bill

You are correct Bill A. Most all of us pistol shooters do not have the control to take advantage of the things we see only under controlled conditions.

Bill,

I agree...the "group" on that first target just seemed way too big to be mechanical. On the other hand, it's been consistent for a few weeks that the first string is all over the place.

I don't know if it's match nerves or post-traffic nerves. I don't ever shoot for score until my second round of the night.

Anyway, thanks everybody for the advice. League starts up again after the holidays, so we'll see how it goes.

-Jason.

jr_roosa wrote:I don't know if this is a mechanical problem or a mental problem.

I shoot at a weekly bullseye pistol league, and I take down and clean my High Standard 107 Trophy (Hamden vintage) after each night of shooting.

The question that I have is my first target (generally slow-fire) is usually a mess the next time I shoot. I shot a 50 last night. My average for slow fire usually runs in the low 70s, not great but clearly better grouped than my 50. By the second target (timed fire) it's settled down.

My question is, could this be the barrel settling down and re-seating itself after take-down, or is this more likely me settling down after negotiating rush-hour traffic on the way to the range? I guess I could leave it dirty and see if I shoot straighter the next week.

If it's the former, any suggestions on ways to ensure proper barrel seating after cleaning?

If it's the latter, I guess that's my problem.

Thanks.

-J.

I actually read your post this time. A 50 score instead of a 70 is the shooter having a cold start. Dry fire more. Warm up some. Dryfire before you begin your 10 shots.

The mechanics of the HS are not that varied. I have a 106 Trophy that never had the barrel off the frame during its first 25 years.

And after each shooting session, just brush the chamber with a bent 25 calibre brush and pull a string patch through. Toothbrush the breech. Pick crud from the slide face especially at the firing pin and extractor. Bottlebrush the mag. That's all. Give it a big clean 1 or 2 times a year.

For the record, I did the experiment.

Maybe the first shot or two is off a little from the barrel not being fully seated, but even with the gun left alone over the last few weeks (I've just been wiping off the powder residue), my first slow fire target stinks.

I'm just too jerky after a day at work and a drive to the range at rush hour (even worse if I get there just in time to get set up).

On the up side, I think this is pretty clear evidence that pistol league is a soothing and relaxing way to end the day.

-J.

It is like with any rifle or pistol. You have to know where your cold bore shot (CBS) Point of Impact will be. Now with that in mind there will be a difference between a Clean (CBS) and a barrel not cleaned. In rifle it s more pronounced then in some pistols.

What happens when you clean the barrel you remove the lead or copper fouling out of all those Microscopic groves in the barrel. So now until you re-foul the barrel your (CBS) will be off. On my F-class rifles I have given up doing a major clean before a match. I have also stopped the use of Bronze brushes in all my rifles and pistols.

I have found for Pistols in the 22 and 32 cal range and also my 22 rifles that a patch with shooters Choice and then a couple of patches work. Then I take the lead free cloth cut a little peace and wrap it around a used brush. It gets very black and takes the high points of lead out while still filling in the Micro groves.

By doing this I have found that my (CBS) POI has not changed enough out to 50ft or 50yds. It does require some adjustment at 100yds. My F-class or High Power for 1000yds by just running a wet patch and then a couple of dry ones has not changed my (CBS) more then 1/2MOA.

I do a real scrub when I find that the way I am cleaning does not produce the groups I want. Then I have my Data for what needs to be corrected for my (CBS). It takes at least 5 shots for any of my pistols or rifles to settle in after a through cleaning.