Completed my second winter 07/08 match last night. Up 5 from first match. 521 to 526. Sorry, novice shooter. My goal is to be at 550 by end of the season and if I get there maybe buy a shooting jacket. First match, I realized my pellet selection was not helping. There were two shots that simply went well off call. Later testing discovered that my pellet choice had fliers. Changed that and felt much better match 2.
New problem area match 2. Random thoughts entered my head unrelated to shooting and a good target went bad with 8 and 7s. My home brewed analysis it to create a worksheet and measure my distribution of 7, 8, 9 and 10s. The focus being not on more 10s, but on fewer 7 and 8s. Note when they happen and why. This is contrary to other advice which is to analyze the 10s and figure out what went right. Maybe at a higher level that makes sense. Comments?
Is there a std method of how to "learn/goal set" from your 60 shot match post match? If there is, I'd appreciate someone sharing it with me. My thought would be to use that to develop my shooting plan for the following match.
Thanks in advance.
Post AR match analysis advice pls
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Steve Swartz
One man's humble opinion: to improve your ability to perform certain tasks, measure your performance of those tasks.
Don't measure holes in paper at all- it's a total waste of time AND a distraction.
Figure out what those tasks are/behaviors you are supposed to be DOING, and measure those.
This has two benefits: 1, you will be focused on doing the right things better; and 2, you will soon figure out how to do those right things better.
Holes in paper will eventually come around . . .
Steve
Don't measure holes in paper at all- it's a total waste of time AND a distraction.
Figure out what those tasks are/behaviors you are supposed to be DOING, and measure those.
This has two benefits: 1, you will be focused on doing the right things better; and 2, you will soon figure out how to do those right things better.
Holes in paper will eventually come around . . .
Steve
Re: Post AR match analysis advice pls
Another person's opinion:durant7 wrote:(A).good target went bad with 8 and 7s. My home brewed analysis it to create a worksheet and measure my distribution of 7, 8, 9 and 10s. The focus being not on more 10s, but on fewer 7 and 8s. Note when they happen and why.
(B)This is contrary to other advice which is to analyze the 10s and figure out what went right. Maybe at a higher level that makes sense. Comments?...
A) is a well-respected approach in quality management - the PARETO principle (or 80/20 rule - 80 percent of the problems can be attributed to 20 percent of the causes). In your case, to reach 540+ for every 7 you need 2 "10"s to compensate. Eliminating the bad saves you from shooting more "10"s. Usually one can hope to catch a couple of "10"s during this process.
B) is found as well, but some trainers (including mine) advise against this because the approach does not strive to eradicate the faulty results. (Not enough, that is). And you know already what it takes to deliver a good shot.
Since human memory is ususally not reliable, especially when tracking one's results and the respective development over a couple of years a good documentation is extremely helpful.
The question is what to document and what to omit (- and on what media. I started with a written journal, then went to a Lotus 123 clone on 5.25 disks. The written journal is still readable, the disks not any more...)
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2650 Plus
AR scores
I've been reading Steves comments for several months and he has still not convenced me that working to develope the individual acts of firing is better than repeating over and over the process that produces the best shots. Studing the procedure that produces your best shots results in developing the confidence you need to have to perform at your best. It also allows you to develope at a faster pace and ,unlike Steve I am not talking unproven theory. The dominate Military teams thrive on positive concepts and prove them every year on the firing lines. How many times has a civilian won the national matches?? I rest my case. Good Shooting Bill Horton
My 0.025 worth
1.) I think that Steve and 2650+ are juxtaposed.
2,) The military teams win due to unlimited training, coaching and firing the finest of guns and ammunition.***
***A little history - in 1963 I was the "New Shooter" sent from Puerto Rico Rodriquez Army Hospital as a Medical Technologist to represent the base to the USARSouthCommand Pistol Matches. Annoyed the heck out of the various combat units there. Reason: we had an ex-Marksmansip unit Sgt. who was attached to the Hospital (???) and he coached me. I had an accurized Ball Gun and all of the ball ammo I could possibly use; would you believe there was 50,000 rounds available to our Hospital Unit?
Anyhow, I went to the matches after using up a lot of the issued ammo and coached by Sgt. Rodriguez and won the New Shooter Gold Medal.
I received daily coaching, thousands of rounds on the range and shot rather well. Sadly, I became a civilian shortly thereafter and my skills dropped in the toilet.
All that beings said, no wonder the military shooters prevail!!
Tillman in Florida
(Bruce Springsteen - "Glory Days" ---give a listen)
2,) The military teams win due to unlimited training, coaching and firing the finest of guns and ammunition.***
***A little history - in 1963 I was the "New Shooter" sent from Puerto Rico Rodriquez Army Hospital as a Medical Technologist to represent the base to the USARSouthCommand Pistol Matches. Annoyed the heck out of the various combat units there. Reason: we had an ex-Marksmansip unit Sgt. who was attached to the Hospital (???) and he coached me. I had an accurized Ball Gun and all of the ball ammo I could possibly use; would you believe there was 50,000 rounds available to our Hospital Unit?
Anyhow, I went to the matches after using up a lot of the issued ammo and coached by Sgt. Rodriguez and won the New Shooter Gold Medal.
I received daily coaching, thousands of rounds on the range and shot rather well. Sadly, I became a civilian shortly thereafter and my skills dropped in the toilet.
All that beings said, no wonder the military shooters prevail!!
Tillman in Florida
(Bruce Springsteen - "Glory Days" ---give a listen)
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Steve Swartz
Bill:
I don't see whwere we have ever disagreed since your recent presence on TT . . . aside from some quibbles over semantics.
How is "focusing on the behaviors required to shoot a perfect shot" different from "repeating over and over the process that produces the best shots?"
Oh hell never mind.
Steve Swartz
I don't see whwere we have ever disagreed since your recent presence on TT . . . aside from some quibbles over semantics.
How is "focusing on the behaviors required to shoot a perfect shot" different from "repeating over and over the process that produces the best shots?"
Oh hell never mind.
Steve Swartz
durant7
Having thoughts outside the shooting process is not unusual for anyone. More experienced shooters have the ability to keep these thoughts away better than new shooters becasue they have practiced that in training.
You need to develop a refocus routine to use when you find yourself mentally away from the match. One possibility is to develop a "special place" to go to in your mind to relax for a few seconds (calm beach or mountain lake?), then refocus by using your pre-shot routine to get back into the rythym of the match. You might use focused belly breathing instead of a special place, but use something that demands your conscious attention so you move attention to what you control rather than the extraneous thoughs. Then you can control moving your attention back to whatever it is you do to shoot a good shot.
Having thoughts outside the shooting process is not unusual for anyone. More experienced shooters have the ability to keep these thoughts away better than new shooters becasue they have practiced that in training.
You need to develop a refocus routine to use when you find yourself mentally away from the match. One possibility is to develop a "special place" to go to in your mind to relax for a few seconds (calm beach or mountain lake?), then refocus by using your pre-shot routine to get back into the rythym of the match. You might use focused belly breathing instead of a special place, but use something that demands your conscious attention so you move attention to what you control rather than the extraneous thoughs. Then you can control moving your attention back to whatever it is you do to shoot a good shot.
All interesting but no "silver pellet" :)
I've read Steve's "Techique Elements" list. Same as "tasks" I assume? Obviously keeping my mind focused in a key task. Calm is a key task. Crud, they are all key tasks.
But, I can also learn something from collecting the point values of what I shot. I find my first 20 shots are always the best. The last 20 the worst. That tells me I need to find some way to improve my competitive stamina. W/o analyzing (not actually measuring) the value of each shot I would not have realized I had a "wind down" problem.
As for repetition for a hobby shooter...sure wish I had 10m indoors where it was warm at the house. Then I would shoot 80 shot matches and get in some shape.
Thanks! Feedback always welcome.
Jud
I've read Steve's "Techique Elements" list. Same as "tasks" I assume? Obviously keeping my mind focused in a key task. Calm is a key task. Crud, they are all key tasks.
But, I can also learn something from collecting the point values of what I shot. I find my first 20 shots are always the best. The last 20 the worst. That tells me I need to find some way to improve my competitive stamina. W/o analyzing (not actually measuring) the value of each shot I would not have realized I had a "wind down" problem.
As for repetition for a hobby shooter...sure wish I had 10m indoors where it was warm at the house. Then I would shoot 80 shot matches and get in some shape.
Thanks! Feedback always welcome.
Jud
Last edited by durant7 on Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Steve Swartz
Durant:
O.K., so by keeping score you know you have "a problem" in your last shots vs. your first shots.
If you had've been tracking *behaviors* (technique elements, things you are supposed to be "doing" [like concentrating on front sight, following through, etc]) you would not only know you had "a problem" . . .
. . . you would know exactly *what* your problem *was*- and how to fix it!
Steve Swartz
[also- as weird as this may sound- you might also not be having any "technique problem" at all. This is good to know. If you are executing your behaviors properly, you probably don't want to get distracted messing with your behaviors at all. Fix your sights/air/pellets/whatever and stop messing with your grip/stance/shot plan!]
O.K., so by keeping score you know you have "a problem" in your last shots vs. your first shots.
If you had've been tracking *behaviors* (technique elements, things you are supposed to be "doing" [like concentrating on front sight, following through, etc]) you would not only know you had "a problem" . . .
. . . you would know exactly *what* your problem *was*- and how to fix it!
Steve Swartz
[also- as weird as this may sound- you might also not be having any "technique problem" at all. This is good to know. If you are executing your behaviors properly, you probably don't want to get distracted messing with your behaviors at all. Fix your sights/air/pellets/whatever and stop messing with your grip/stance/shot plan!]
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2650 Plus
Reference "Oh What the Hell"
Hey Steve, did you notice the post just above this? I'm becoming convinced that you are correct. We are saying about the same thing only with different words and consepts. I am beginning to realize that I've been saying and writting the same way for so long that if I find it stated in a different way ,it seems strange to me amd I have the urge to restate it in my words. If you have seen my posts you know that I often say "only hits count" and "tens count more than any thing else" Also " they just score the target to identify the winner"You hold that scores are not the issue, Performance is the issue.and I take the position that the score is the important thing. Rembering that the high score is the match winner.I really cant account for why we seem to hold different views on whats most important. Oh Well Good Shooting Bill Horton