TargetTalk

I have a Steyr LP-5 and like the way its compensator works and was thinking about having my Feinwerkbau C-10 ported by Mag-na-port. The .45's and .44 Magnums that I've had done with this technology was pleasing. Anybody have this done on an AP? They use the EDM [electrical discharge machining] process and don't drill the barrel but maybe the land and grooves in a AP are too delicate? Any thoughts, has anyone had it done and if so did it work well on the AP?

Unless I am very much mistaken thereis a lot more to air pistol compensation that just a hole in the barrel. It might work but my hunch in not as well as you may hope and may indeed even be worse.

Not sure what the mod will cost, but you might find they coat + the money you might get selling it could well approcah the cost of another steyr or even a p44

JY

Here is the home page of the company that I'm referring to above, http://www.magnaport.com/company.html and they have been around for years. On high recoiling firearms it works for me and doesn't cost an arm and leg to find out, about $135 for a .45 [went up since I last had it done]. The Steyr is such a sweet shooter and the old C-10 compared to it is such a blaster thought it worth a shot [pun intended]. Lots of guys buy the compensators and from what I've read they don't work as well as they should. There is a bunch of savvy guys on this site, someone had to have tried it.

Ron Norman wrote:Here is the home page of the company that I'm referring to above, http://www.magnaport.com/company.html and they have been around for years. On high recoiling firearms it works for me and doesn't cost an arm and leg to find out, about $135 for a .45 [went up since I last had it done]. The Steyr is such a sweet shooter and the old C-10 compared to it is such a blaster thought it worth a shot [pun intended]. Lots of guys buy the compensators and from what I've read they don't work as well as they should. There is a bunch of savvy guys on this site, someone had to have tried it.

Compensators and the drilled barrels do to seperate jobs. The compensator strips the gases away from the pellet leaving the barrel and in theory gives it clean air (very little disturbance) upon exiting the barrel. The drilled barrel and absorber are there to lessen the felt force (ie recoil, some don't like to call it that) which operate as per physics (for every force there is an equal opposite reaction).

Ron Norman wrote:I have a Steyr LP-5 and like the way its compensator works and was thinking about having my Feinwerkbau C-10 ported by Mag-na-port. The .45's and .44 Magnums that I've had done with this technology was pleasing. Anybody have this done on an AP? They use the EDM [electrical discharge machining] process and don't drill the barrel but maybe the land and grooves in a AP are too delicate? Any thoughts, has anyone had it done and if so did it work well on the AP?

Ron,
The Magnaport technology was developed and used (very successfully) to reduce recoil, not to strip the exiting gases from a pellet. If you look carefully, you will find that the projectile is still engaged in the rifling in a Maganported barrel, whereas the pellet is totally free of the rifled barrel in a Steyr or FWB 'compensator'. Magnaporting an AP would provide the same recoil reduction effect as the drilled holes. Steyr et al prefer to use drilled (or EDM) holes because that avoids royalty fees to Magnaport.

IMHO recoil reduction in an AP is waste of time, tho obviously some high (and not so high) level shooters like it.

Fred,

Of course your are right but I have seen something on that Canadian site http://www.airgunsonly.com/frames.html that just might work. The barrel is ported and has a 4 way compensator that looks as though it would work. Take a look at example #C I think it was. The author was saying that porting the barrel with a drill would leave burrs which of course it would but the EDM process might preclude that problem. That compensator #C looks similar to a Nygard but with ports cut into the barrel in front of it.

Fred Mannis wrote: the pellet is totally free of the rifled barrel in a Steyr or FWB 'compensator'.

Fred

Is that the case for the LP10 ?

Julian

JulianY wrote:

Fred Mannis wrote: the pellet is totally free of the rifled barrel in a Steyr or FWB 'compensator'.

Fred

Is that the case for the LP10 ?

Julian

Don't have an LP10, but it is the case for my LP1 and LP50

The Lp10 seems to have 3 holes the go into the barrel, my bet is that they are correctly sized and spaced to do a phased gas release, which is balanced against the recoil. IE if they were bigger you would get a downward movement and small you would get upward movement.

This may also be part of the reason the LP10 has a higher velocity that normal.

but i am speculating

JY

Ron Norman wrote:Fred,

Of course your are right but I have seen something on that Canadian site http://www.airgunsonly.com/frames.html that just might work. The barrel is ported and has a 4 way compensator that looks as though it would work. Take a look at example #C I think it was. The author was saying that porting the barrel with a drill would leave burrs which of course it would but the EDM process might preclude that problem. That compensator #C looks similar to a Nygard but with ports cut into the barrel in front of it.

Example C is the system used on the FWB P44. Example B plus barrel ports is the system used on the Steyr LP50/10. Frankly, I can't tell the difference. When I execute a perfect shot with my LP1, which is unported and unstabilized but is compensated, the front sight does not move. Perhaps these refinements can help an Olympic class shooter looking for another point, but I doubt whether these refinements and added cost do much for the rest of us.
The article on Recoil, Muzzle Jump, and Barrel Time on the Airgunsonly site seems to jumble air guns and cartridge guns. These effects are all an order of magnitude larger for cartridge guns (5x greater projectile mass, 2x greater projectile velocity) and I can see where these design changes might significantly improve the performance of a cartridge gun. But note, there are no ported FP barrels, and many of the FP barrels are uncompensated.

JulianY wrote:
The Lp10 seems to have 3 holes the go into the barrel, my bet is that they are correctly sized and spaced to do a phased gas release, which is balanced against the recoil. IE if they were bigger you would get a downward movement and small you would get upward movement.

This may also be part of the reason the LP10 has a higher velocity that normal.

but i am speculating

JY

The LP10 compensator looks like the LP50, i.e. the pellet is free of the barrel in the compensator. The barrel ports of course funtion differently.
Recoil reduction is greater with higher gas pressures. For example, compensators do a much better job of recoil reduction on a 38 Super than on 45ACP because the 38 Super operates at much higher pressures

JulianY wrote:Unless I am very much mistaken thereis a lot more to air pistol compensation that just a hole in the barrel. It might work but my hunch in not as well as you may hope and may indeed even be worse.

Not sure what the mod will cost, but you might find they coat + the money you might get selling it could well approcah the cost of another steyr or even a p44

JY

Julian, anything less than the cost of a LP 10 would be a consideration. I have started talking to some of the people at Mag-na-port to see what they can come up with. One of the tech's was saying that they did .22 competition guns all the time but no AP's yet as far as he knew. Sent the Canadian site http://www.airgunsonly.com/frames.html to him so that he can get an idea of what I was thinking of. Would be nice to have an old C-10 that shot similar to a Steyr with out the cost. Wishful thinking, huh?

Ron, Any news on this project ?

Julian

Ron, Any news on this project ?

Julian


Julian, funny that you emailed just when you did as I was trying to get some information from Feinwerkbau about a C-25 [Feinwerkbau] barrel that had a compensator on it. The factory rep seemed to think this was a rifle amazingly and not two [the C-10 and C-25] of their pistol products. If I can get the price of the C-25 barrel and it will fit, that would be one part of the problem solved and as for the porting that would be done by Mag-na-port which uses a EDM machine [electrical discharge machine] and their charge is under $90, might be a tooling cost of about $30. The total cost has to be reasonable or will sell the gun and buy something else of course. What I need is schematics and breakdown instructions of the C-10 and I can't seem to find them. The work if I pay for it [shop labor] would probably force me to sell, tried to get "Brownells" to order the barrel but they passed. Do you have a place for parts and instruction manuals?

Julian,

I found a picture on "Goggle" search of all places of what I'm talking about. These search engines are fantastic. This looks like what I would like to try but with the added ports. The whole thing is the cost of course, if you pay shop time your dead, just as well sell the gun and buy something else. The barrel looks like it comes out pretty easily, two hex screws but really don't know. Anyone out there have shop manuals/brochures been there done this?

I would email Feinwerkbau, i have found the friendly and helpful in the past. they probably have the document in PDF format

as they say the answer is no unless you ask.


Julian

Ron:

Just to make sure I am not missing something, the photo you posted of the C-25 shows it already having a ported barrel (in addition to the muzzle break). This is not an optical illusion as I have seen other factory C-25's with ported barrels. I have also seen them without, so I presume it was added to later production C-25's.

Charles

crrmeyer wrote:Ron:

Just to make sure I am not missing something, the photo you posted of the C-25 shows it already having a ported barrel (in addition to the muzzle break). This is not an optical illusion as I have seen other factory C-25's with ported barrels. I have also seen them without, so I presume it was added to later production C-25's.

Charles

I have been in contact with Feinwerkbau and they did indeed say that what I had in mind possible. However, they are making me go through a dealer and that makes a mistake likely as there are a couple of different C-10's and C-25's. They apparently "drill" the barrel and don't use a "ECM" machine. They asked how many "barrel drills" I wanted, what do you think? Steyr has 3.

Julian, Feinwerkbau wouldn't give out the directions for a barrel swap but how hard could it be, take out the hex bolts and barrel and put in the new barrel and torque them back down, should be the same O.D. Does that sound right? Any thing else in there, washers or ?