TargetTalk

question for scott. since steyer air cylinders need to be tested every 5 years manual says send back to factory ,as the factory rep in U.S. can you do this, how much cost, or is it more cost effective and easier to just buy new ones every 5 years.
thanks any info appreciated
lucky

Scott is unable to answer as he is still in China and cannot access TT. He said that the German mfg have actually changed this from 5 years to 10 years.

Since we can not travel by air in the US with air cylinders, can we ship them thru Scott for the Nationals? Would he be there in time for us to get them?

ps TSA recently searched my luggage and confiscated my matches and lighter. Since when do we have a problem with people in the hold playing with matches?????


I am ready to crap in my bag just for them!

Bruce Martindale wrote:Since we can not travel by air in the US with air cylinders, can we ship them thru Scott for the Nationals? Would he be there in time for us to get them?

ps TSA recently searched my luggage and confiscated my matches and lighter. Since when do we have a problem with people in the hold playing with matches?????


I am ready to crap in my bag just for them!

But you feel safer now don't you!!!!

I want to share my recent experience with you concerning our trip from Midland/Bay City/Saginaw (MBS) to Colorado Springs (CO) via Northwest. My daughter competed in the 2006 Junior Olympics (air & smallbore) the 4th week of March. We arrived at the airport at 5:30 am for a 6:30 am flight out to Minneapolis/St. Paul, then to CO. We also made sure the TSA agents knew my daughter was competing at a very important competition.

The TSA agents opened my daughter's gun case and we stood right there explaining to them which each gun was and that the air cylinder would have to be removed from the air rifle to be discharged in their presence and then reattached to the rifle. They obliged and they handed the rifle to my daughter (we couldn't cross the 'no admittance' fence). She unscrewed the cylinder and with discharge valve in hand, demonstrated the air being released from the cylinder. She did this slowly (I instructed her to do this prior to our arrival at the airport as we didn't want to startle anyone). As soon as the pressure was low enough to consider the cylinder 'discharged', she stopped the process, leaving just a little pressure remaining to prevent moisture backfeeding into the cylinder. She then inserted the cylinder into the stock and screwed it in (again demonstrating that it was indeed intended for the rifle and that the valve was functioning).

The TSA agents were completely satisfied and impressed with my daughter's handling of the process. (She just kept on smiling as well as my wife and I during the whole affair). The agents placed the alert orange tag inside the gun case and then placed her air gun into its pocket. They relocked the gun case and placed it on the conveyor for loading onto the aircraft.

My son has also been flying alot to many rifle matches (Northwest, United and Delta) and he has been doing the same thing with no problems whatsoever. In fact, the university team has experienced no problems either.

Maybe we have been lucky so far but we always have been polite and cooperative - never showing any signs of disgust or the like.

Again, this has been my experiences with Northwest up to this point. Maybe my story will help someone or spawn ideas.

Matt

I must agree with Matt. I just completed a round trip with both air and rimfire pistols. The TSA that I delt with were both professional, polite, and accommodating. The process was very painless. I have never had a problem with TSA. Perhaps I have just been lucky, I am polite and notify them of what is being declared prior to unlocking the cases. For me it's been about as easy as checking a bag. My cylinders are always empty when packed.
I do wish that the TSA Brass would come out with a clear and nonconflicting policy, in plain english, giving a pass to these cylinders for once and for all.

I have also flown Northwest. Again no problem. I had discharged the cylinder, screwed it loosly back into the rifle. N/W at checkin asked me if it was loaded, where the ammo was. Then turned it over to TSA. TSA looked at it, closed and locked the case, taped the locks for me (Isupplied the nylon tape), gave me the keys and off I went. At Colorado Springs (I figure they know what an AR is), they repeated the process. No fuss, no problems. (I had placed a copy of TSA rules in the case where they were visible to the inspectors, I had a copy with me)

We had some shooters who went on other air lines and they were firmly informed by the airline no cylinders. These people UPS'd the cylinder to the training center and picked it up when they got there. Again no problems.

It helps to do your homework ahead of time and just don't buck the system because you will loose every time.
TM

Thomas Monto wrote:We had some shooters who went on other air lines and they were firmly informed by the airline no cylinders. These people UPS'd the cylinder to the training center and picked it up when they got there. Again no problems.

It helps to do your homework ahead of time and just don't buck the system because you will loose every time.
TM

Interesting – what airlines were they flying Thomas? I want to make sure I avoid them in the future. I can't agree more about doing your homework ahead of time and carrying a copy of the TSA approved list of checked items -- which says compressed air guns are fine in checked baggage.

My personal experience flying more than a dozen times on multiple airlines (US Air, Air Tran, Northwest, Air Canada, Delta, America West, American Airlines) with an AP 2005-2006 says it’s not a problem. I’m talking in/out of several airports in the USA and Canada-- Washington National and Dulles, Denver, Dallas Fort Worth, San Antonio, Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, Toronto, Germany, Tampa to name a few -- and not one time has TSA, an airline, or any other Nation's security agency had an issue with my AP cylinder.

If I just went by what I've read on this thread and others I'd never fly anywhere with an Air Gun for fear of a TSA problem -- when my personal experience says otherwise.

Basically, I agree that the rule needs to be changed and I've written my representatives. That said -- if WE use common sense when traveling it's really not a problem

Of course, when I mentioned all this before on a previous thread the responses from the alarmists on the board was "You were just lucky."

Dick

I don't think it is a function of the airline but of the TSA attitude by location. I know people from Albany NY who have been turned away. Would that still be the case, who knows. I have a letter from the TSA saying no way without removing the valve.

My suggestion, with Scotts approval, if feasible, was to mail the cyl to him before the match.

I don't think I am an alarmist, I'm just dealing with my local brand of characters and the uncertainty they present.

I'll try to find out what airline they used. The A/L would not even permit two rifles per case.

Probably 99% of TSA personnel do not even know what an air rifle/pistol is. Just let them inspect it, apply their tag and be done. Don't offer any imformation, just answer any questions that they may have. Get there plenty early with someone who is not going, should you have a problem. It is simple to have the cylinder overnighted to your destination.

The accessory bag I have with the rifle seems to draw the most attention. Last time coming back from Colorado it had no less than three inspection stickers on it and three inserts stating it had been searched. As far as I am concerned they can look at it as many times as it takes to make them happy. (by the way it was an overweight bag/container)

Seems to me that some people make a mountain out of a mole hill.
TM

Thomas Monto wrote: Seems to me that some people make a mountain out of a mole hill.
TM

TM,
It is not a 'mole hill' when an agency of the Federal government is unable or unwilling to enforce specific written regulations. If the regulations are improper or not necessary, they should be changed; if proper they should be enforced. In my view this situation is not far removed from travel in certain countries where problems can be overcome by payment of a bribe which sometimes works, but might also put you in jail and/or ruin your trip.

Fred

Bruce Martindale wrote:
I don't think I am an alarmist, I'm just dealing with my local brand of characters and the uncertainty they present.

Hi Bruce --

I did not mean to imply you **specifically** were an alarmist. I understand there are certain challenges with the State of NY which go well beyond the TSA.

For example -- I considered driving to NYC/NJ to visit relatives with my 3-guns and flying out of JFK for a match while my family stayed with the in-laws. I was advised not to execute the plan based on the firearm ownership rules in NYC where even an AP is illegal without a license. Basically, at airport check-in without a proper NYC permit I would be arrested and my firearms confiscated. I'm sure NYC is its' own animal and upstate the rules are a bit better -- but I'm not surprised you are having a problem in NY.

Cheers

Dick

The problem is there are all these stories floating around and like most stories we are only hearing one side. I deal with people all the time on enforcement issues and they are there own worst enemy, if they just kept their mouth shut there would be no problem. People naturally want to volunteer information and explain things that ; 1. they really don't understand themselves or 2. Just don't have the apptitude to explain the subject. I pretty sure that some of the peoples problems are of there own making but with-out actually being there and seeing it for myself or getting the otherside of the story we'll never know for sure. I myself have never had a problem flying with AP's the 2 times I've done it and of all the shooters that I personally know none of them had either so.

I am certainly happy to recieve packages for anyone to bring for the Nationals, but my expereince flying with airguns/cylinders both back and forth from the Vegas and back from Germany has been no problem at all.

No, when I tried to fly from Shanghai to Beijing with a chinese made cap pistol I had bought at the flea market, and again whenI tried to fly from Bejing home today, I had to have about 7 different peoples of increasing rank before someone with enough rank could approve it. But this is very Chinese trait in any business , very few low level-to mid level managers are willing to make a decison for fear it will be viewed wrongly somehow.