TargetTalk

It is apparent that most individuals here have never been in a real fight with a government agency. Let alone, in a battle with an agency as powerful as the TSA. You will loose.

Let me point out that TSA is tasked with providing safety for the traveling public. It is a dauntingly large task. In fullfilling their responsibilities of providing public safety, a few individuals may get stepped on along the way.

In the case of the air cylinders, TSA has stepped on a few people. Very few.

Millions fly. How many of them are traveling with air cylinders? I doubt you could ever get that number above .001% of the traveling public. Seems to me, that if an agency tasked with providing public safety is inconveniencing only such a small and insignificant percentage of the total travelers - then they are doing an amazingly good job in the overall. And it is the overall that counts.

Let me also point out that there are alternatives to traveling with your air cylinders. Surface travel by the competitor with the air cylinders is the first, followed by shipment of the cylinders.

TSA has not said you cannot move the cylinders from point A to point B. They just don't want them on an airplane.

Lastly, let me also tell you how well your little, and it is little, problem will be received by busy elected representatives. Elected officials are interested in major issues. Issues which are newsworthy and place their pictures in the media and get them re-elected. The small number of airgun shooters involved in competition, with a gripe about TSA, don't measure up to these requirements.

Another words, you have no clout. Get used to it. It is just another obstacle in your prusuit of the gold.

There is not a top level competitor in any non-commercial/professional sport that doesn't get challenged by inconvenience everytime they travel, compete, get sick, injured, drug tested, etc.

Over coming obstacles is just part of the competition.

I've said it on the other thread but it bears repeating - it is just plain dumb when it is easier to travel with firearms and live ammunition than it is an empty compressed air cylinder. Don't tell me it's a matter of public safety as it isn't. They allow travel with medicines, hair products, deodorants etc - all of which are compressed. And as also mentioned they can easily be x-rayed.

I would suggest that if the rules stand then the US should not be allowed to hold ISSF air competitons or the olympics. It is unfair to competitors to have to ship (or cargo fly) empty cylinders.

I believe your shooting governing bodies should be addressing this problem as a matter of urgency otherwise it risks alienating the entire USA from a shooting perspective.

Rob.

it becomes significant'y bigger obstacle when you involve international travel

next US world cup, we need to get TSA to confiscate the cylinders from every single foreign athlete and make sure the media is watch THAT might make it a newsworthy issue

as to "It is apparent that most individuals here have never been in a real fight with a government agency." if government is THAT unresponsive to the citizens we have accomplished very little 230 years.

Poole

I have friends who partake in a craft which tends to attract customs attention. Nothing illegal, or immoral, or any such like. Just not "customs friendly" in the post-9/11 world.

Over the years they to have found no official solution to their travel tribulations, so they have opted for an alternative. They package their wares a week or so before travelling, insure it, and post it to their destination. They then fly with their clothes and personal items. No questions, no confrontations, no stress, no problems.

RobStubbs wrote: I believe your shooting governing bodies should be addressing this problem as a matter of urgency otherwise it risks alienating the entire USA from a shooting perspective.

Rob.

Both NRA and USAS have been/are addressing this issue - with no success so far. My view is that the Dept of Home Land Security is so besieged with other problems - Katrina, US port management, FEMA to name a few - that this issue is buried in the noise. Chertoff is hanging on to his job by the skin of his teeth.

Fred

Post is becoming a non-option.

More countries are joining the policy of no firearms (or firearms parts) by post - apparently it upsets the workers if they know there are firearms parts in the system. Here in AUS, even a coil spring is not allowed if it is a firearm part...

Spencer

I work for the Federal Government, and I can assure you that they listen if hit hard enough. What's needed are a few meetings with Congressmen.

Seriously, DHS is a screwed-up outfit. TSA is the prize goat-rope. Everybody knows it, it's just a matter of when the facts get faced.

I gotta agree with Bill177 on this one.

Having to make alternative arrangements is merely an inconvenience which can easily be overcome.


And I agree with Rob on this one too. It is dumb to restrict travelling with an empty air cylinder


I guess as Americans we have the luxury of being complacent and down right apathetic about the minor issues because we live in a country which for the most part, has the most liberal gun laws on this planet. When framed within the "big picture" - air gun cylinder issues barely constitute a speck.

By contrast, England is one of the most oppressive of all when it comes to this passionate pursuit of ours.

Rob, I dont want to turn this into a red coats v. blue coats discussion. My step mom was born in England and I have nothing but wonderful memories of your homeland which I visit often. But, the problems you British shooters face including restrictions which require you to train outside of your own country makes our travel restrictions quite easy to accept and quite petty compartively speaking.

When I first learned that London was in the running for hosting the summer olympics I fervently hoped it would NEVER happen because of how your government has decimated the shooting sports among its citizens.

THen I reconsidered because I figured if there are any shooters in the world who deserve to have the olympic shooting sports in their backyard -its the British because of all they have and will continue to endure.

My hat is off to you guys on that side of the pond - the fact that there are any of you left still shooting is a testament to your dedication to the sport and that famous stiff upper lip.

Best regards,


F. Paul in Denver

F. Paul,
Couldn't agree more with you and yes training abroad is more than a bit of a pain for our pistol shooters. I guess I'm sort of used to it and that's where things like the airgun cylinder issue appears so daft. It is a nonsensical rule which is just messing up a lot of things for a lot of shooters.

I just hope you get things sorted out.

Rob.

Just one more example of useless petty tyranny. Nothing to see here, move along.

Spencer wrote:Post is becoming a non-option.

More countries are joining the policy of no firearms (or firearms parts) by post - apparently it upsets the workers if they know there are firearms parts in the system. Here in AUS, even a coil spring is not allowed if it is a firearm part...

Spencer

Why would you say its a gun part, not just an empty air cylinder, as for a coil spring you declare it as a coil spring. I see this all the time where people seem to invite problems. My favorite declaration is machine parts, is it inaccurate? No. Do you really think and customs agent who looks into a package that contains spring and screws is going to know what they come off of?

RobStubbs wrote:F. Paul,
Couldn't agree more with you and yes training abroad is more than a bit of a pain for our pistol shooters. I guess I'm sort of used to it and that's where things like the airgun cylinder issue appears so daft. It is a nonsensical rule which is just messing up a lot of things for a lot of shooters.

I just hope you get things sorted out.

Rob.

Your entire firearms registration and permit scheme is nonsensical and daft to most Americans.

I guess I don't really understand the hub bub about this issue. Since it initially popped-up as a "problem" last year I have flown at least a dozen times with my air gun in/out of several airports in the USA and Canada-- Washington National and Dulles, Denver, Dallas Fort Worth, San Antonio, Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, Toronto, Germany -- and not one time has TSA or any other Nation's agency given me a problem.

Dick Poore

Jose Rossy wrote: Your entire firearms registration and permit scheme is nonsensical and daft to most Americans.

Jose,
Thanks for that helpful and constructive comment.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Jose Rossy wrote: Your entire firearms registration and permit scheme is nonsensical and daft to most Americans.

Jose,
Thanks for that helpful and constructive comment.

Rob.

About as helpful and constructive as this:

I would suggest that if the rules stand then the US should not be allowed to hold ISSF air competitons or the olympics.

Sounds familiar?

Jose,

There are many former pistol shooters in Britain who would agree with you, in relation to the 2012 Olympics. There was a similar suggestion for the 2002 commonwealth games.

Tim S

Exeter, UK

Dick wrote:I guess I don't really understand the hub bub about this issue. Since it initially popped-up as a "problem" last year I have flown at least a dozen times with my air gun in/out of several airports in the USA and Canada-- Washington National and Dulles, Denver, Dallas Fort Worth, San Antonio, Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, Toronto, Germany -- and not one time has TSA or any other Nation's agency given me a problem.

Dick Poore

Dick, couple of things. 1, You're carrying a Pistol and one or maybe two small air cylinders. I'd bet the TSA folks are paying more attention to the "GUN" than the parts that make it work. 2. Air Rifles cylinders are much more obvious and the air cylinders look more like a "Pipe Bomb" to the TSA folks. 3. You've Just been very lucky. You haven't hit that "By the Book," "Letter of the Law" and common sense be damned Screening Supervisor yet, - But, you will eventually. There are about 455 US Airports, and you could find that many (times the total number of shifts, and personnel on those shifts) different interpretations.

This really needs work from a Congressional Staffer to make TSA fix it. Nothing less will do.

GA Guest

GA Guest wrote:You've Just been very lucky. You haven't hit that "By the Book," "Letter of the Law" and common sense be damned Screening Supervisor yet, - But, you will eventually. There are about 455 US Airports, and you could find that many (times the total number of shifts, and personnel on those shifts) different interpretations.

When I wrote to the TSA asking for clarification, their answer was unambiguous: You can take the airgun, but not the air cylinder needed to make it work. Anyone who gets a whole airgun onboard is probably just lucky that a lot of these screeners' last jobs were at McDonald's. If they actually knew what they were doing, you'd never be so lucky.

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

GA Guest wrote:You've Just been very lucky. You haven't hit that "By the Book," "Letter of the Law" and common sense be damned Screening Supervisor yet, - But, you will eventually. There are about 455 US Airports, and you could find that many (times the total number of shifts, and personnel on those shifts) different interpretations.

When I wrote to the TSA asking for clarification, their answer was unambiguous: You can take the airgun, but not the air cylinder needed to make it work. Anyone who gets a whole airgun onboard is probably just lucky that a lot of these screeners' last jobs were at McDonald's. If they actually knew what they were doing, you'd never be so lucky.

Makes you feel safer doesn't it.

Richard H wrote:Makes you feel safer doesn't it.

Yup, no bombs over a certain size.