TargetTalk

Hey, 45ACP223. Yes, I am currently using a Steyr LP1. In spite of what you may think, I have nothing against PCPs, only that you can get equal performance (cheaper) using something else.

As I explained elsewhere on TT, I got a fantastic bargain on one, so why not. I like new toys, too.

Unfortunately, it did nothing to improve my scores. I would buy another K58 if I found one cheap.

RE: The red dot: I use one on my Bullseye gun. The FAS 604 belonged to someone else, but he uses a FWB 44.

Muffo: I cannot shoot a 575 anymore, but I can't say the same for Jay Shi (who I shoot with regularly).
Am I to understand that shooting ONE 575 a year keeps the Master rating, or do you need to average that (or better, as in the US).

From the posted NRA International Style Rules: Air Pistol 60 shot match, a score of 558 and higher is considered a Master score. 570 and higher in Bullseye competition.

19.9 Obsolete Classifications and Scores - All classifications and scores (including temporary, Rule 19.14) except Master, shall become obsolete if the competitor does not fire in NRA competition at least once during 3 successive calendar years. Master classifications and scores shall become obsolete if the competitor does not fire in NRA competition at least once during 5 successive calendar years. Lifetime Master classifications will not become obsolete.

19.15 Individual Class Average - Competitors will be classified as follows and NRA Classification Cards issued accordingly:
FREE PISTOL
Master ........................................................... 91.00 and above Expert............................................................... 86.00 to 90.99 Sharpshooter .................................................... 80.00 to 85.99 Marksman ........................................................... Below 80.00
AIR PISTOL
Master ........................................................... 93.00 and above Expert............................................................... 88.00 to 92.99 Sharpshooter .................................................... 82.00 to 87.99 Marksman ........................................................... Below 82.00
CENTER FIRE PISTOL
Master ........................................................... 96.00 and above Expert............................................................... 94.00 to 95.99 Sharpshooter .................................................... 92.00 to 93.99 Marksman ........................................................... Below 92.00
STANDARD PISTOL
Master ........................................................... 91.00 and above Expert............................................................... 85.00 to 90.99 Sharpshooter .................................................... 80.00 to 84.99 Marksman ........................................................... Below 80.00
RAPID FIRE
Master ........................................................... 95.00 and above Expert............................................................... 91.00 to 94.99 Sharpshooter .................................................... 85.00 to 90.99 Marksman ........................................................... Below 85.00
19.16 Establishing Classification - A competitor will be officially clas- sified by the NRA when the total score for a minimum of 120 shots has been reported for either indoor or outdoor. However, classification averages will be computed only after the total score for a tournament or league has been posted and, therefore, the average may be based on a greater number of shots, but will not be based upon a lesser number. Total scores so reported to the NRA will be posted to the Classification Record for the competitor concerned. When the scores for the stated minimum number of 120 shots (or more if this minimum is reached during the scores of any tournament or league) have been so posted the average score per 10-shot string will be computed. The competitor will be sent an Official NRA Classification Card based on the average so computed and according to the table in Rule 19.15 which classification will become effective the date shown on the card issued by NRA.

Rover wrote:Hey, 45ACP223. Yes, I am currently using a Steyr LP1. In spite of what you may think, I have nothing against PCPs, only that you can get equal performance (cheaper) using something else.

I agree with you 100% I think a lot of folks mis-interpreted your comments.

Rover wrote: In spite of what you may think, I have nothing against PCPs, only that you can get equal performance (cheaper) using something else.

That statement could be interpreted in two basic ways, and I think that's the basis of all the different opinions. If you think about the on-target performance of the gun itself, all of the 10M APs are roughly equal, from the FWB65 through the SSPs and the CO2s to the latest PCPs. They can all shoot X-ring groups all day long, and accuracy differences are more likely caused by different batches of pellets than by the guns themselves.

If you think about the overall performance of shooter plus gun in a match situation, there is a significant difference between guns that are shooter-powered (spring piston and SSP) and those that are self-powered (CO2 and PCP). The great AP shooter Don Nygord - a Master by anyone's standards - switched from his FWB65 to a CO2 gun as soon as he saw that CO2 could be a reliable power source. I can't find the article that he wrote about the switch for a long-defunct airgun magazine, but I remember him writing about conserving energy by not needlessly expending it charging the gun. BTW, he did not express similar enthusiasm for switching from CO2 to PCP.

Bottom line: both opinions have validity, depending on how you interpret "equal performance."

Rover wrote:Hey, 45ACP223. Yes, I am currently using a Steyr LP1. In spite of what you may think, I have nothing against PCPs, only that you can get equal performance (cheaper) using something else.

As I explained elsewhere on TT, I got a fantastic bargain on one, so why not. I like new toys, too.

Unfortunately, it did nothing to improve my scores. I would buy another K58 if I found one cheap.

RE: The red dot: I use one on my Bullseye gun. The FAS 604 belonged to someone else, but he uses a FWB 44.

Muffo: I cannot shoot a 575 anymore, but I can't say the same for Jay Shi (who I shoot with regularly).
Am I to understand that shooting ONE 575 a year keeps the Master rating, or do you need to average that (or better, as in the US).

We are only required to shoot it once of in the year. I dont know anyone who is capable of shooting it once a year tho who wouldn't at least average high 560s.

Pistol Australia grade break scores http://www.pistol.org.au/events/grade-break, and grading policy http://www.pistol.org.au/events/grading

Just to get back on track: I was shooting my AP this morning next to a young(er) Olympic hopeful with his high zoot PCP air rifle. I asked him if it his scores had increased over the tired old SSP he had been using a year ago.

He said, "Yes, I'm less tired now, but any increase in my scores is due to ME."

I'll buy that!

Rover wrote:Just to get back on track: I was shooting my AP this morning next to a young(er) Olympic hopeful with his high zoot PCP air rifle. I asked him if it his scores had increased over the tired old SSP he had been using a year ago.

He said, "Yes, I'm less tired now, but any increase in my scores is due to ME."

I'll buy that!

Well, wait until this "hopeful" tries to shoot a 20-shot final (it equally applies to you) where you have to make two three-shot series in 180 seconds while pumping each one and then tell me!!!

renzo wrote:Well, wait until this "hopeful" tries to shoot a 20-shot final (it equally applies to you) where you have to make two three-shot series in 180 seconds while pumping each one and then tell me!!!

150 seconds

David Levene wrote:

renzo wrote:Well, wait until this "hopeful" tries to shoot a 20-shot final (it equally applies to you) where you have to make two three-shot series in 180 seconds while pumping each one and then tell me!!!

150 seconds

In my country oficial match and final timings are different between electronic and paper targets.

Having said that, you're right concerning the I.S.S.F. rules, sorry for the substitution.

But it does strengthen my point even more........................

Just go to bed early, indulge in a nice vegetable shake in the morning and you'll be able to shoot finals with your fancy old Walther LGR all day, err' day!

v76 wrote:Just go to bed early, indulge in a nice vegetable shake in the morning and you'll be able to shoot finals with your fancy old Walther LGR all day, err' day!

Have you tried it?

I'd bet not, because I've seen people tying to do it to no avail. Obviously, if you settle for a wide 9 you can do every day on and off, but you'll be the first to be dropped.

Maybe (a BIG maybe) in electronic targets. With paper targets even in electric carriers, no way.

I'm sorry, my comment was tongue-in-check, like most of the ones I posted in this thread which seems to simply be troll bait... a lot of people gets reeled up about the particular topic of equipment. Now that Rover disproved his own argument that "you can get equal performance (cheaper) using something else" by his review of the FAS pistol, I think we can all move along and wait for FWB's revival of the 65... or well, for the next similarly titled thread.

P.S. Shot AR for a while and hated every moment of it. Wait, I actually liked storing the rifle in its case. Stupidly heavy, awkward cocking... and the gear, urgh... rifle shooters must be heavy into the BDSM thing.

v76 wrote:I'm sorry, my comment was tongue-in-check, like most of the ones I posted in this thread which seems to simply be troll bait... a lot of people gets reeled up about the particular topic of equipment. Now that Rover disproved his own argument that "you can get equal performance (cheaper) using something else" by his review of the FAS pistol, I think we can all move along and wait for FWB's revival of the 65... or well, for the next similarly titled thread.

P.S. Shot AR for a while and hated every moment of it. Wait, I actually liked storing the rifle in its case. Stupidly heavy, awkward cocking... and the gear, urgh... rifle shooters must be heavy into the BDSM thing.

My bad, didn't notice the irony, guess I got (as you say) "carried away" in the argument.

You're right, time to start another topic!!!

[quote="v76"]Just go to bed early, indulge in a nice vegetable shake in the morning and you'll be able to shoot finals with your fancy old Walther LGR all day, err' day![/quote]

a vegetable shake....??? in the morning no less !!!
I would have diarrhea the whole day !

FWIW, I started with the FWB 65, moved to the then new FWB model 2, then a Walther CPM-1 (shouldn't have sold that one!) then to my current squeeze, a Morini 162 EI. Over the years, my scores stayed the same. Never did master the 500g two stage trigger.

I no longer shoot matches, but I shoot at home and I am determined to shoot better scores now than I did 30 years ago. I am wiser, more patient, and more aggressive on my trigger pulling. I think that hurt me the most on AP, that I was "chicken fingering" the pull.
I am also older which means at the end of 60 shots, I will have to see if I have the stamina I used to have.
Love the Morini, thought of getting a Steyr, but whats the point. Won't buy me any points.
Sometimes I do miss my FWB 65.

Dr.