TargetTalk

From the CMP rule book:

6.6 Pistols Permitted and Specific Requirements
Competitors may use any of the following U. S. service pistols in the National Tro-
phy Pistol Matches and CMP-sanctioned Service Pistol Matches.
6.6.1 U.S. Pistol, Caliber .45, M1911 or M1911A1
The pistol must be a pistol that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a com-
mercial pistol of the same type and caliber.

*****

Note the part regarding "same type and caliber". That means that a 9mm 1911 is not legal for leg matches.

Orpanaut wrote: Note the part regarding "same type and caliber". That means that a 9mm 1911 is not legal for leg matches.

You may be correct, but alot of people are buying them, so I suspect a lot of people are using them.

Given there cost ($2200, I think), I doubt they're using them to shoot Woodchucks from their back porches...

I still find it interesting that they will not let him copy a 92SF in steel, but it appears he's found plenty of ways to add additional weight and proper balance to the issued model.

...oh and another year has gone by, and once again the top shooters were using his pistols at Camp Perry (e.g. at least Zins and Lange [sp?]).

GBMaryland wrote:

Orpanaut wrote: Note the part regarding "same type and caliber". That means that a 9mm 1911 is not legal for leg matches.

You may be correct, but alot of people are buying them, so I suspect a lot of people are using them.

Given there cost ($2200, I think), I doubt they're using them to shoot Woodchucks from their back porches...

I still find it interesting that they will not let him copy a 92SF in steel, but it appears he's found plenty of ways to add additional weight and proper balance to the issued model.

...oh and another year has gone by, and once again the top shooters were using his pistols at Camp Perry (e.g. at least Zins and Lange [sp?]).

No "maybe" to it. A 9mm caliber 1911 pistol does NOT conform to the CMP rules. It may be used as a centerfire pistol in NRA centerfire pistol matches. I just don't want to have someone shell out a lot of money for a pistol and not be permitted to use it for what they bought it for.

There is a lot of selective mis-information out there, which clouds every logical decision about gun accuracy. I met Dr. Nick and he showed me two of his pistols (.45 and 9 mm) and I will say, without reservation, that they appear to be the finest pistols I have ever seen, bar none. The precision is mind boggling.

Although talk is cheap, and I believe half of what I see, I let the facts speak for themselves. If Brian Zins won camp Perry this year and others in the past, it must be a testiment to the quality and accuracy of these pistols. What else can you say ?

Dr. Nick is dedicated to maximizing precision to far beyond even the best pistols out there. His persuit of excellence goes beyond his gun building, to ensuring the ammo cases have exact internal volumes, external diameters , bullets weighed to 1/60 of a grain and powder batches to be consistent under controlled humidity and temperature conditions. These extreme measures, together with the top shooter ( Zins) can only result in winning. What else counts ?

Antoni

So the time has come. I've read through this thread and been amazed by the random subjective comments made herein and many that are pure conjecture and even some that are absolutely untrue. Because of these comments I feel compelled to respond and enlighten those that might read this thread and still be scratching their heads.

I'm not going to address any questions r/t Dr. Nicks civilian medical practice, other than to comment that in lengthy phone conversations with him. I found that he contradicted himself numerous times. I wanted to stay focused on my order and so didn't desire to have him clarify his inconsistencies.

He is definitely a great conversationalist on the phone and sounds very knowledgeable about his subject and product. I was first promised that my Beretta would be ready for me in 12-16 weeks, and that I would have it with plenty of time for practice before Pistol week at Perry 2009. As that deadline came and went, I had numerous conversations with Dr. Nick... he couldn't help the delays, he couldn't get components from suppliers, ect. All very valid and understandable, additionally he always remained courteous and polite on the phone.

Unfortunately, 2009 Nationals as well as many other matches came and went, with no sight of the gun and it became more difficult to get Dr. Nick on the phone. I eventually took the advice of an old Pres100 shooter and placed an order with David Sams. He told me it would be a year, but that I would probably have it before that, he just preferred to have customers happy with getting the gun early and in case there were any unexpected events, he didn't have to make excuses. I appreciated this.

I finally got Dr. Nick on the phone (4 months beyond the delivery date by this time) after calling his office and home and leaving multiple messages.
I canceled my order and requested my deposit back. I did get my deposit but it took another 2 months. I consider myself lucky.

The AMU does not use or do business with Dr. Nick. Nor does the USAR or ARNG shooting teams. Team members have purchased Dr. Nick guns, with their own cash, and have some interesting stories to tell. Difficulty in delivery, to put it lightly, seems to be a continuing theme. Many of the Dr. Nick guns that I've seen have had "problems", better quality control and reliability testing before they went out the door would have remedied many of these issues.

That said, the ones that shoot are definitely very accurate and in qualified hands, easy to get high scores with. I borrowed one this summer and was the top non-dist. shooter, even though I had never fired the gun before.

My Sams gun arrived about 4 weeks before it was promised, but not in time for the 2010 Nationals. It is, as promised, ready to shoot right out of the box. The fit, finish and accuracy is truly impressive, no reliability or QC issue to worry about. I have no question that this pistol in qualified hands could earn it's possessor the Pres100 tab, et al.

There are other Beretta builders to consider, such as Cecil Self. And not to consider, such as a Wells Gun. Unfortunately, Tony Kidd is no longer an option, he does love his 10-22's.

My point, Some of Nick's guns shoot and shoot very well, you may wait much, much longer than you were told and there may be some "problems" or there may not. The decision is yours, I hope that this has been informative, and cleared up some of the inaccuracies in this thread.

I must agree about the comment on Dave Well's guns/gunsmithing.Have received many emails from unsatisfied customer's since my report on my Dave Wells Wad pistol. One thing about Dr Nick business ethics-at least HE returns the customers money promptly.

I just got off the phone with Dr. Nick. My wife bought me a MC wad gun for our 30th wedding anniversary. I was told that he was going to shoot my gun this weekend in a Pennsylvania match to check for function and would be shipping the gun out next Thursday for a Friday delivery. I am very excited and look forward to having many a happy match shooting this beautiful gun. I am a relatively new shooter but I have the best wife in the world. BTW going out this afternoon to buy her a diamond for the 30th.

Mark, Edmond Ok

GOVTMODEL wrote:

Guest Twenty wrote:While the MCP pistols might be very good neither of the "gunsmiths" (can I REALLY call a Chiropractor a gunsmith?) have proven themselves yet.

You're quite right, I'm sure. Only after Brian Zins wins several more National Championships would I be confident shooting an MCP product <G>



Richard Ashmore

I know a gunsmith in oklahoma that used to be a bartender, does that make him better at gunsmithing than a chiropractor?

penman53 wrote:

GOVTMODEL wrote:

Guest Twenty wrote:While the MCP pistols might be very good neither of the "gunsmiths" (can I REALLY call a Chiropractor a gunsmith?) have proven themselves yet.

You're quite right, I'm sure. Only after Brian Zins wins several more National Championships would I be confident shooting an MCP product <G>



Richard Ashmore

I know a gunsmith in oklahoma that used to be a bartender, does that make him better at gunsmithing than a chiropractor?

Hard to say, but Brian won his tenth National Championship with an MCP pistol. How many National Champion shooters are getting their work done by your guy?

This thread must hold a record for the time it has lasted!

I must say that I continue to watch the debate, and I am also surprised at the longevity of my query! Thanks everybody!! Dwaine

this message has been deleted.

Mark, I hope you get either your gun or your money back. Definitely contact Visa and challenge the charge. That is one good reason for using credit cards. I am not sure "Dr. Nick's business practices rise to the level of fraud, however if you paid a deposit, you may be able to go after him in small claims court. The bad news is that you might have to do it in New Jersey, as you could have trouble getting jurisdiction over him in Oklahoma. By the way. it was posted on the Bullseye-L list today that the Mountain Competition Pistols web site is down as in "turned off" but I don't know if this is a temporary or a permanent thing. Isabel

Dr Nick is getting to sound like the behavior pattern of Dave Wells Custom guns.

I do not think Dr. Nick would defraud anyone considering first, he does have a medical practice (this is confirmed) and second, a 10 time national champion endorses his products (that is confirmed as well).

I just called and spoke to him yesterday (10/2). I can hear some machine running in the background, so he is doing something in his shop. Also I want to mention, he doesn't do this full time as most pistolsmiths do. Rather he does his gunsmithing on the side (mainly weekends). I have found that calling him during the weekdays, you will get his answering machine, calling him on the weekend, he is likely to pickup or call you back. He is only at the shop during the weekend by the way.

Penman53, it seems you mentioned that he missed a deadline by a day and you feel there is fraud involved. I can say from my experiences in dealing with all sorts of gunsmiths, you cannot ever expect to have work done by a certain date. I have dealt with Dr. Nick many times and I know he will deliver. Also, having website down does may not indicate wrong doing, he is updating his website as I understand.

Either way, I hope you get things worked out.

usmcmba wrote:I do not think Dr. Nick would defraud anyone considering first, he does have a medical practice (this is confirmed) and second, a 10 time national champion endorses his products (that is confirmed as well).



Penman53, it seems you mentioned that he missed a deadline by a day and you feel there is fraud involved. I can say from my experiences in dealing with all sorts of gunsmiths, you cannot ever expect to have work done by a certain date. I have dealt with Dr. Nick many times and I know he will deliver. Also, having website down does may not indicate wrong doing, he is updating his website as I understand.

Either way, I hope you get things worked out.

No reputable business bills your credit card until they actually ship the product.

Isabel1130 wrote:

usmcmba wrote:I do not think Dr. Nick would defraud anyone considering first, he does have a medical practice (this is confirmed) and second, a 10 time national champion endorses his products (that is confirmed as well).



Penman53, it seems you mentioned that he missed a deadline by a day and you feel there is fraud involved. I can say from my experiences in dealing with all sorts of gunsmiths, you cannot ever expect to have work done by a certain date. I have dealt with Dr. Nick many times and I know he will deliver. Also, having website down does may not indicate wrong doing, he is updating his website as I understand.

Either way, I hope you get things worked out.

No reputable business bills your credit card until they actually ship the product.

I am not sure what penman's particular circumstances are, but it is possible only the deposit is charged so far? I forgot what Dr. Nick charges for deposit, but some of these guys charge up to 50% for deposits. Either way, I don't think Dr. Nick is out to defraud anyone. I know Brian to be a very stand up guy who will not associate himself with questionable characters. If Dr. Nick is out ripping people off, I know Brian will not endorse his products and as far as I know, Brian still shoots Dr. Nick's guns at this time.

He did not run 1/2 of the cost of the gun, he charged me the full 2700 anda told me that he had fired the gun at a match to "test" it. He indicated that he was going to clean it and send it out to me. I don't know how long it takes to clean a gun according to him but I refuse to wait weeks with my paying credit card bills for a item that I have failed to recieve. It is poor business practice and Visa frowns on this type of transaction and I was warned by my financial institution. I cancelled my Credit Card.

Well, I owe Dr. Nick an apology. He contacted me this morning and indicated that Brian had shot my gun and was not happy with the trigger. In the interim, the gun was fixed but was forgotten to be shipped. It has been sitting on the bench ready for shipment but didn't go out. Dr. Nick graciously apologized for the mixup and promised me delivery by this Thursday. So it looks like I will be getting my dream gun afterall. I think my wife is glad that this worked out also since she bought for our 30th wedding anniversary.

I apologize to Dr. Nick for being so anxious, this is just the most amount of money I have ever paid for a gun. I am really glad I am getting it.

Mark, Edmond Ok

Had a lengthly informative phone call from Dr. Nick last night. He also gave me the tracking number for my new pistol. It is enroute to Edmond Oklahoma as we speak. Wooooooooooooooooopie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait to get my hands on that beauty. Dr. Nick came through in what most people would say in record time. It has been less than a month from order to delivery. I was way to jumpy to complain and I truly apologize for being so impatient to all parties concernec. And thanks to you all for holding my hand through the process.

Mark Thomas, Edmond Ok