TargetTalk

I noticed that if I am dry firing and switch to "fire", just moving the selector will expel air. Just to be clear, gun is on safe and I open/close action to dryfire and pull the trigger and hear click. Without opening the action, if I move the gun from safe to fire, it will expel air. My other air pistol has an electric trigger so I am not sure if this is normal. I know none of my air rifles act in such a way. Somewhat concerned about doing this in a match. Have just been dryfiring and getting familiar enough with the gun to make sure I never do this. Dryfiring during a match is something I do fairly frequently so it is a little concerning. I think I can understand why the gun would do this and don't really think it is broken and wouldn't even say it is a design flaw if this is how it is suppose to work but it isn't the best design. I still stick with the decision to buy the gun and could return it for a full refund at anytime. I know this is not what you are saying is going on with your pistol but would like to know if this is the way all of them work?

USMC0802 wrote:I noticed that if I am dry firing and switch to "fire", just moving the selector will expel air. Just to be clear, gun is on safe and I open/close action to dryfire and pull the trigger and hear click. Without opening the action, if I move the gun from safe to fire, it will expel air.

This is normal for a most of the mecanical trigger air pistols. The dry fire switch blocks the striker and stops it from hitting the valve. If you switch to live fire without cocking it first the striker will be allowed to continue it's travel to the valve as it is still under spring pressure.

Mine randomly fires the pellet in the act of closing the breech with the pistol in left in the live fire mode. I believe that is a different issue than the release of air switching between dry and live fire?

[quote="S44captain"]Mine randomly fires the pellet in the act of closing the breech with the pistol in left in the live fire mode. I believe that is a different issue than the release of air switching between dry and live fire?[/when quote
When my k12 arrived the trigger was set very light way under 500g, with very little sear contact . I think you will have t adjust your trigger also

Pauln, trigger has nice travel and a clearly defined release when the breech closure doesn't pre-fire. I don't have a gauge but it is a bit more firm then the one on my Biakal. I do occasionally hear a "loose" sound when the pistol is tilted down. I'll talk to the dealer today and see if they want to let me open it up or if they would prefer I send it back for a more expert look at.

S44captain wrote:Mine randomly fires the pellet in the act of closing the breech with the pistol in left in the live fire mode. I believe that is a different issue than the release of air switching between dry and live fire?

This sounds similar to the problems I had with the Lp10E. Steyr changed all the hitting parts and the levels if the trigger. Now it's perfect

Emil had me pull the grip off turn a screw 1/4 of a turn counter clockwise. Problem fixed!

S44captain wrote:Emil had me pull the grip off turn a screw 1/4 of a turn counter clockwise. Problem fixed!

Sounds like the sear adjustment screw

S44captain wrote: I do occasionally hear a "loose" sound when the pistol is tilted down. I'll talk to the dealer today and see if they want to let me open it up or if they would prefer I send it back for a more expert look at.

Not sure about what you mean by "loose sound" when the pistol is tilted down. But it should be the absorber, which is free to move up and down. Actually it moves "down" when the pistol is tilted down.

As for the regulation of the sear engagement ... 1) the factory regulation, out of the box, in many cases is not satisfactory (too short, or too long); 2) a good regulation is often a personal choice; 3) starting from the "zero" position of the sear engagement screw, turn the screw, few degrees anticlockwise, untill it works fine for you (it is not so easy, yes).

scerir wrote:

S44captain wrote: I do occasionally hear a "loose" sound when the pistol is tilted down. I'll talk to the dealer today and see if they want to let me open it up or if they would prefer I send it back for a more expert look at.

Not sure about what you mean by "loose sound" when the pistol is tilted down. But it should be the absorber, which is free to move up and down. Actually it moves "down" when the pistol is tilted down.

As for the regulation of the sear engagement ... 1) the factory regulation, out of the box, in many cases is not satisfactory (too short, or too long); 2) a good regulation is often a personal choice; 3) starting from the "zero" position of the sear engagement screw, turn the screw, few degrees anticlockwise, untill it works fine for you (it is not so easy, yes).

Scerir and Pauln, you are both correct. The noise is the absorber and the sear engagement was very easy to adjust, once I was instructed how. The K12 Junior is really put together nice and seems like a big change from the IZH I've been using. Thanks for the tips!

If all other settings are equal - valve spring and hammer spring, hammer mass, hammer spring preload, port size - then a shorter barrel on a PCP pistol should result in more wasted air after the pellet has left the muzzle. This should result in a louder report. The corollary should also bear out; put a much longer barrel on a K12 and it ought to be quieter owing to more energy having gone into pushing the pellet before the air leaves the muzzle. By the same token, identical settings on each of these examples should result in the slowest velocity for the Junior, fastest for the theoretical long-barrelled version.

That's my JR. I got to hear a standard length K12 before I bought my JR and was surprised by how much louder it was. I wear "ears" shooting the JR and none at all the 46M.

I'd take the dB readings you reported with a grain of salt unless they were obtained using a device with a microphone capable of exact response to extremely brief and intense signals, and a recording mechanism free from any sort of damping or modulation. A proper dB meter will cost in the neighbourhood of $10,000 or more. A sound meter app on a phone or laptop may prove valuable to some extent if one's expectations are not too high, for purposes of relative measurement but not absolute quantification. My Android phone with a sound meter app tells me my 46m shoots at about 89dB, with the mic at the same elevation as the muzzle and one metre to the left side and above grass as per milspec testing bit I suspect it is louder than that. My K12 when the hammer spring is adjusted to match the 460fps muzzle velocity of the Baikal measures about 91dB in the same scenario. That seems accurate relative to the Baikal as the Pardini is slightly louder, but I doubt it is actually 91dB. Both would likely measure closer to 100dB if properly measured. But that's just a guess.

I'm guessing this is a device which might be used to determine whether a complaint of a noise bylaw violation was in fact in excess of a specified dB limitation? If that's the case, it's probably averaging over timespans considerably longer than would be useful in accurately gauging noises from an air pistol or firearm. Sustained volumes tend to be much more easily measured. If you visit silencertalk.com/forum you'll be able to find quite a lot of references to noise measurement. Kind of a specialty around there.

Using a cheap sound meter about a yard away I got a reading of 95.6 DB for the Pardini and 91.1 for the Biakal 46m. At a yard to the other side the Pardini was 96.4 and the 46M was 92.3
The Pardini sounds much louder to me than the 4 DBs but that was average difference the meter picked up. Could a 4 DB difference really be that noticeable?

Well, the difference between 90dB and 100dB is an order of magnitude, as decibels are on a logarithmic scale. So yeah, that's believable. I find the Baikal fairly comfortable to fire in a small room while the K12 bothers my ears. At the range, a rather bigger room, neither gives me any trouble. According to my sound meter's scale notations, pain starts around 120cB. I think they're being a bit careless with that number. Sustained 120dB exposure is more than sufficient to damage hearing. It rates 90dB as 'factory machinery at 3 feet' which sounds about right. I've worked in a small machine shop, and earplugs were definitely necessary to avoid after effects from a day's work. But I'm pretty sure I could hear the K12 firing above a mill and a couple of lathes running nearby. It puts in 'subway train' and 'hair dryer' (probably right near the ears) for 100dB. Those are probably about on par with the K12 firing at factory velocity, so I'm sticking with my estimate of 100dB for the Pardini.

This discussion is beginning to remind me of the old story about the pilot who flew his plane into dense fog over coastal Washington state. He raised the Microsoft tech support center on the radio and asked where he was. Tech support replied: "In an airplane. Over and out."

Has nobody noticed that the Pardini - if it's anything like my late version K2 - has a series of ports along the length of the barrel which discharge relatively high pressure air into the environment? Of freakin' course it's louder than the Baikal whose air exits at low pressure only from the muzzle. Before my shoulder went south and I was still able to shoot, everybody tried to avoid shooting next to me because my pistol was that much louder than all the others on the line.

In order to conduct valid SPL tests, besides all the expensive, calibrated equipment, you need to take your readings in a non-reverberant field - either an anechoic chamber which I'm guessing you don't have or outdoors. Then come back with your results, and maybe they will be significant. Until then whatever you think you've learned will be as meaningful as the answer that poor aviator received.

Back from the dead... a year on what do owners think of the K12?

Nothing has changed. Still a brilliant air pistol. No complaints.

I have owned my K12 for approximate a year and I really like this ap. It seems to me that it is a little nose heavy but that is really not a problem. I would like to try a short cylinder to see how that feels. I have done very little accuracy testing but what I have done has demonstrated it to be very accurate, certainly to the point where I will not waste more time testing. With a charge of 200 bar, I have fired about 175 shots before it gets down to the 70 bar line. Adjusting the trigger as the manual suggest, backing out on the engagement screw about 1/4 turn, made the trigger feel a little soft. I backed out about 1/8 turn, or very slightly more, and it feels much better. Another thing I like about this trigger is everything is visible, with the grips off, so it is easy to tell what each adjustment screw does. This is a very smooth shooting pistol with minimal feeling when it fires. I like the fact that the recoil reduction system is air actuated rather than spring actuated like the Steyr. It is very consistent. I had a Steyr LP10 and it was a great pistol. However, I found that the spring actuated recoil reduction changed feeling occasionally and I would take it apart to check the adjustment. The small parts inside must be looked after carefully. I have owned a FWB 65, FWB 2, Steyr CO2 (which I cannot remember the model, CP1 maybe), Walter CPM1, Steyr LP10 and now the Pardini K12. With the exception of the FWB 65, Steyr LP 10 and the Pardini K12, I have shot 580 with them all regularly. When shooting the FWB 65, the men were still shooting 40 shots, and with the 2 most recent models, I simply do not have a 580 hold any longer. However, I really wish I had a K12 years ago because I feel sure I would have enjoyed shooting it well. It is an very fine pistol that I like, certainly as well, or better than anything else I have owned. I find it interesting to hear other shooters debate over electronic vs mechanical, recoil vs stabilized, this that and the other. I have fired just about all types and found my scores did not vary much once I got used to the particular pistol being used. I did try out a friends Morini 162 ei titanium for a couple weeks and it is a very fine pistol and the little bit of recoil there is had absolutely no bearing on my scores. The bottom line is, choose the model you like and then stop worrying about what others say. If you are looking to purchase a truly world class air pistol, consider the K12. I love mine and have no regrets at all. It is a quality product, I love the trigger; it is very consistent and the recoil reduction system is very effective.