TargetTalk

David
Have you ever had the thought "I sure don't want to shoot an 8 here" and you do.

When you get the scatt and pellet trap set up try not to think "I sure don't want to shoot a sensor here"

Exactlly !!! I have no marks on my pellets trap that would indicate Iwill do that. KNOCK ON WOOD !!!!!

More trivia than anything.
I've pondered over the fact that with our Rika or Scatt systems, we have the target parameters set to a true 10m. Our 'shot measurement' is therefore an exact 10m - laser to target.
Realisticaly though, when we shoot live fire on a 10m range, we are in fact only shooting about 9m - maybe 9.25m. My reasoning is that we stand at the firing line and our arm and pistol reaches forward about 1m.
Doesn't that mean we are shooting over a 9m distance?
So, maybe David's results could be a reflection of that. He's been training with a true 10m 'line of fire' with the Scatt - then moves to 9m live fire?
Just a thought. The real enginers/mathamaticans would know better.

John Meadth:

With a target scoring system, the shot is "called" to within very close proximity to where the shot actually fell on the paper. Target scoring systems have no need for hold tracing, etc. etc. BUT they will tell you exactly where your shots are landing on paper.

Target trainers do not have the ability to "call" shots to within very close (having the actual pellet fall within +- 1 pellet diameter is pretty good) to the actual shot. They do not care about where the holes in the paper are BUT they will tell you precisely where your muzzle is pointed, and when the trigger was activated. THis allows them to generate a ton of data about your shooting process.

So

Target Trainers: measure the PROCESS of your shooting

Target scorers: measure the OUTCOME of your shooting

Regrettably, we don't really have any systems (yet) that do an adequate job of BOTH . . .

Steve

Steve

thank you

John

Steve

Thank you

John

Steve

Thank you

JohnM

Oops

Sorry Steve not trying to be rude

I got an error message with each of the previous posts

I just finished a lunchtime practice match. After I was done I realized the main thing I did not do while just using pellet was I didnt worry about my hold. All I was focusing on was sight alinement. My friend told me what his % in the 10 was and I was dumbfounded. "thats impossible I said" His hold is much better than mine , He has a great follow through(I have none), But my scores on scatt are better than his. In matches I have yet to beat him ( losing by 1 a few times) Hes shot a hundred(plus) matches where ive shot less than ten. I wait until I have the perfect hold to pull the trigger (I dont know about him). I am not stateing in anyway what I do is correct, just seems to work for me.... Back to my point ! My scatt does not forgive me at all! my Morini loves me and only wants to give me tens! The feel of shooting pellets is much better, but the conveinece of the scatt gets me to train alot more........cant wait for December!.....David

Hi All,
I've stumbled upon this thread having just become a Scatt owner, for training for 25/50 prone .22 rifle, and very glad I am that I found it. I too have found the lack of detailed information on Scatt frustrating, but hopefully someone will have some answers to my initial questions;

For individual shots, does the cross on the target diagram show where the muzzle was pointing at the moment of shot release? I know that on the combined diagram the cross shows the centre of the group.

The instructions mention 'electronic corrections', using the mouse to move a shot to where you wanted it to land. I took this to be the equivalent to adjusting the rearsight, but it seems to have no effect on subsequent shots. Is there a way to electronically simulate altering the rearsights?

On the target holger there is a rotary switch on the side with markings 0 - 9. At present it is set to 0. Is this switch altered when using the frame at longer distances?

On the underside of the target holder are two ports, that appear identical, for connecting the target interface cable. The insrtuctions show the left one being used - is there a difference?

I set the rifle up in a vice and fired 10 shots - there was some shot dispersion and the 'hold' oscillated in an area about the size of the shot hole - adding wieght to the argument above that a trainer does not show the impact point with absolute accuracy.

Thanks in advance for any answers!

Regards,
John

Does anyone use Scatt or Rika for Standard Pistol/Sport Pistol or Centrefire training? Is it succesful?

Scatt is great for centre fire, both precision and duelling. I isolate something I want to work on eg hold - shoot the shots and analyse the data. I am only an average shooter but my personal best, in both components, is improving markedly. Saves a tad on bullets as well.

Standard is not supported ( unless I missed it somewhere between crossbow and sniper)

JohnC

the cross on each target represents you average hold for that shot

jbshooter wrote:Does anyone use Scatt or Rika for Standard Pistol/Sport Pistol or Centrefire training? Is it succesful?

Although not recently, I have used the Rika for Conventional Pistol, which is very close to Standard.

In order to have it work for the sustained portions, you must turn off the retrace, reduce the follow through time and move the sights off target between shots. Even at that, it would sometimes miss a shot or two.

BTW, I cycled the slide to reset the trigger by tying a string to either the sighting system (if slide mounted) or another point on the slide. For the 208s I inserted a 1/16" cotter pin through one of the spring pin centers and tied the string to it.** Then I cycled the slide with my off hand after hammer fall.

If you use the method above to dry fire sustained fire, always remember to use a form of chamber protector that will remain in place during the slide cycling. For the 208s I use the Hammerli chamber plugs available from Larry's Guns. For other guns I often use dry wall achors (size #4) with a small portion removed from the rim so the extractor can't catch it.

**The method I described can only be used with the rear sight removed. For my training I was using a dot sight. To set up the 208s with the rear sight in place another tie point must be found. I haven't studied it lately, but will edit this message if I remember to check on a new attachment point next time I'm training.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

Ed Hall wrote:

jbshooter wrote:Does anyone use Scatt or Rika for Standard Pistol/Sport Pistol or Centrefire training? Is it succesful?

Although not recently, I have used the Rika for Conventional Pistol, which is very close to Standard.

With all due respects for the ingenuity Ed, it certainly wouldn't be training for the 10 second or even the 20 second series of Standard Pistol.

Having to force the pistol off-aim is not really the same as having to get it back on aim from the recoil.

Having to move the non-shooting hand to pull the string between shots is not actually realistic training.

It all must have been interesting to watch though.

I am of the firm opinion that the only effective way to train the 5-shot series in either 10 or 20 seconds, other than by using visualisation, is with live ammunition (lots of it).

Thanks to Dave A and 'guest' for the info. Does anyone know if you can copy Scatt files (without uploading to the website)? I just want to move my records from the laptop to my desktop, but the usual 'edit' button in My Computer/Scatt Catalogue doesn't offer a copy option.
John

JohnC wrote:Thanks to Dave A and 'guest' for the info. Does anyone know if you can copy Scatt files (without uploading to the website)? I just want to move my records from the laptop to my desktop, but the usual 'edit' button in My Computer/Scatt Catalogue doesn't offer a copy option.

My Computer/Scatt Catalogue is actually a dummy folder.

You can copy from C:\Scatt Catalogue

I've used my Rika with my Morini AP (162ei) to practice the 10 sec and 20 sec series.
All i did was turn off the trace and reduce the follow thru time to the min setting (i think this is .5sec)
I don't have to move the sights off target. Works great except I get five different targets, not five hits on one target.
I can see all the shots on one target by selecting the 'series' option, but as there are 10 shots in a series it shows all 10 shots. Again I haven't found a way to change the settings so each series is just 5 shots.
It can be done by 'finishing' the series after each five shots, but this involves starting all over again after each five shots and you spend more time with the mouse and computer than you do shooting.
This sounds a bit gobbly gook if you don't use the Rika system frequently - apologies.

John Hadjichristou wrote:I've used my Rika with my Morini AP (162ei) to practice the 10 sec and 20 sec series.

The point I was trying to make in an earlier post is that you are practicing shooting the 10 and 20 second series with a gun that doesn't recoil at all between shots.

Recoil recovery, whilst not paticularly difficult for Standard Pistol, needs to become part of your rhythm and technique. IMHO, by training without realistic recoil, all you are doing is training to shoot an unrealistic event.

I understand your point totally David. My post was more one of interest in noting that I keep the pistol pointed at the target for the 5 shots.
My use of the Rika for 10sec and 20sec is mainly to create something different to do - but I also find it a great help in getting my sight alignment prompto and keeping my intense focus on the front sight for every shot.