TargetTalk

Everything now a days is about ARs. So unfortunate for so many reasons.

Bob

You people act like this is a recent thing. I bought my first Pardini SP in 1991, and even then there was nothing US-made to compete with it or the Walther GSP, or the Domino. No RF pistols except for Hi-Standard Olympics which were uncompetitive with the Euro guns. No free pistols. No air pistols. I'm not a rifle shooter, so perhaps somebody could point to an American competitor to the Hammerlis, Anschütz, FWB, etc.

I don't want to make too strong a connection, but I think a lot of the blame belongs to the NRA. If Bullseye had been more aligned to the international disciplines, maybe - maybe - the situation would be different. The addiction to the 1911 has been impossible to kick, and it's cost American precision shooters. If anybody wants to chip in with something like "Well, they could shoot OUR games," don't think you'll ever persuade me. We're one country. They're the whole rest of the world.

Greetings,

I used to host ISU/ISSF matches when the NRA was still in charge of the International program.

It was about the same time 'Red Dots' appeared and soon thereafter attendance dwindled.

Folks today are looking to 'buy a score' and not willing to take the time to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship. i.e. iron sights.

Last, look at the scores today compared to 10-15 years ago. Most are lower despite the use of CNC machined pistols and the various optical sighting devices.

Sincerely,

Dave

Thank you, Dave, I had totally forgotten the red dot "revolution." Why put in the time and effort to learn things like sight alignment if you don't have to?

This forum is valuable for those of us who've come recently to ISSF shooting. At my club we now have four regulars in the ISSF group we started six months ago -- one experienced hand who shoots very well, and three relative novices (including myself) who are coming along. Fortunately we have a true 25m range. Outdoors, but under cover, and it never gets that cold in Vancouver. Monthly competitions usually draw 15 or so from several clubs.

ISSF Pistol around the world will never die, particularly as more clubs find ways and financial support in order to introduce electronic scoring. ISSF pistol shooters; men and women, will always remain an elite with respect to all hand gun disciplines. Absolutely nothing will ever alter that obvious fact.

william wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:21 pm You people act like this is a recent thing. I bought my first Pardini SP in 1991, and even then there was nothing US-made to compete with it or the Walther GSP, or the Domino. No RF pistols except for Hi-Standard Olympics which were uncompetitive with the Euro guns. No free pistols. No air pistols. I'm not a rifle shooter, so perhaps somebody could point to an American competitor to the Hammerlis, Anschütz, FWB, etc.

I don't want to make too strong a connection, but I think a lot of the blame belongs to the NRA. If Bullseye had been more aligned to the international disciplines, maybe - maybe - the situation would be different. The addiction to the 1911 has been impossible to kick, and it's cost American precision shooters. If anybody wants to chip in with something like "Well, they could shoot OUR games," don't think you'll ever persuade me. We're one country. They're the whole rest of the world.

Standard pistol was created to try to get the US on board with international shooting.
But you guys stuck with your 1911s and your obscure match, for the average american I imagine all the trouble of setting up and reloading for a custom 1911 compared with shooting almost any other match with a glock made it unworthwhile.

william wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:21 pm I imagine all the trouble of setting up and reloading for a custom 1911 compared with shooting almost any other match with a glock made it unworthwhile.

What's a glock?

A few observations on the International pistol disciplines in the US:

1) There was a dramatic dropoff in the number of shooters at matches when USA Shooting took over International shooting from the the NRA. I went to a free pistol match in Massachusetts the early 80's where I got turned away because the 40 point firing line was full. 5 years after USA Shooting came along, and there were two of us at the same match, in large part because it was the same day as a big bullseye match. A lot of shooters enjoyed shooting international events, but decided just to stick with bullseye rather than join another organization. Very few new shooters saw the point in joining USA Shooting when the NRA had lots of matches, and other events were beginning to take off. I think the realization that making it to the Olympics was a lot harder than they thought also convinced some people to go elsewhere. Unless you are already an elite level shooter, the support you get for pursuing Olympic aspirations is pretty much zero.

2) I help coach a collegiate team. We introduce roughly 30 students to air pistol every fall, and end up with about 15 students who will continue to shoot for 3 or 4 years. The US collegiate program is strictly International events; air, standard, sport, and until recently, free pistol. Unfortunately, when they graduate and no longer have a range, free ammo and targets & nice pistols to shoot, most of them abandon the sport. I'd guess only 1 student a year (max) continues shooting, although some may take it back up when they send their kids off to college. A very long time ago, if a student made the "All American" collegiate team, the adult club at the university would give them a target pistol. That helped, but legal & financial constraints killed that decades ago. The university also has an Intramural Air Pistol Program, and that gives grad students, staff and undergrads who don't have the time for the team a chance to do a little shooting.

3) The USA Shooting Junior Olympic program does develop a number of good shooters, but the number of clubs that have a junior pistol program is pretty small. We host the State JO tryouts every January, and there are roughly a dozen kids from outside the university that compete. Many of them shoot for many years & get pretty good, but the numbers are still small. I think one of the problems is that so few adults are familiar with the International events that getting volunteers to start & run a program at a club is difficult.

4) A couple local clubs hold monthly air pistol matches during fall, winter & spring. They are reasonably well attended, mostly by Junior Olympic shooters, or older shooters. There's a BIG gap in the attendance by anyone between 20 and 50.

I don't have any suggestions for a way to "fix" any of this, but International shooting is still limping along in the US. Of course, the COVID 19 mess hasn't helped. I hope that we can pick up where we left off at some point, but it may be a while.

"Standard pistol was created to try to get the US on board with international shooting.
But you guys stuck with your 1911s and your obscure match, for the average american I imagine all the trouble of setting up and reloading for a custom 1911 compared with shooting almost any other match with a glock made it unworthwhile."

Two questions:
1. What, precisely, does that all mean?
2. Who ever mentioned Glocks, and what in the world does Glock have to do with precision shooting?

And I guess a 3rd is in order: Was the quoted passage an attempt at irony? I sure as hell can't tell.