TargetTalk

Spencer wrote:

Ziabeam wrote:Oh and as for no shooting sports, funny how Australia just picked up Gold in the women's trap,
Congrats. That's very funny indeed. "Blind squirrel syndrome" comes to mind amidst the laughter.

Yes, I am an Australian, but how insulting (and uninformed) do you really want to be?
Australia's ONGOING shooting record stands on its own feet.

HE (KatoomDownUnder) said it was "funny"... I played along.
Lighten up Francis.

hundert wrote:I figured we should start with athletes whom we have recently seen winning a World Cup, last Olympic games etc, because that's where people look first. Some athletes, like Andrija Zlatic, Yusuf Dikec, Jitu Rai and Jin Jongoh have great Wikipedia pages. Some others have very little info.

I need volunteers to fill Wikipedia pages of the following athletes.

...

It's important we add the info before the Olympics start. People should not be disappointed when looking for info. Doing just one person per volunteer is enough. Pick your favorite athlete and add some info.

Don't think just shooters though. Filling in shooters is good, but look at kit and organisations as well.

There was no article for Bleiker until I wrote it (at least not on en.wikipedia - there might have been on non-English wikis). It's not a whole lot - not much more than a stub - but it means there is now a page with a few citations, etc. Same for your national governing body/bodies - I keep an eye on mine, update anything relevant.

Something to keep in mind is social media (snapchat, instagram, twitter...).

As we all complain about the 'darn kids' on their 'darn phones' remember that they are sharing their sport with a lot of viewers! So the more they post and share, the more publicity the sport gets. So, remember to give them something good to post. Take a picture of that 10.9 and post it. A few snaps of the range, or a coach/RO making it fun (Yeah be goofy when it's safe). How about offering a pic of them with their rifle/pistol/shotgun?

I know the juniors talk about their friends commenting and liking their posts- all of which is positive to the sport. So lets help them show off what they are doing....how about some good 'hash tags'? As stupid as I think they are.....they are a powerful marketing gimmick. #pewpewlife etc....

So if you see someone on their phones-when it's safe and an appropriate time- photo bomb a selfie once in awhile. Its usually guaranteed a smile!! :)

I'm 100% behind wanting to increase the visibility of Olympic Shooting in this country. Given how passionate Americans are about firearms, we should focus more on ISSF competitions!

I'm speaking on estate planning and firearms at an upcoming professional development teleseminar. In my biography, I mention that I am an active member of USA Shooting (I cleared this with the USA Shooting media first. To be clear, I have never participated in an official competition but am a due-paying member) and explain what the organization is. This professional development is being presented in several states.

I figure that there are plenty of lawyers out there who probably don't even know this type of shooting exists. Lawyers would be a good audience to present this type of shooting to, since there are a fair number of lawyers who enjoy shooting firearms around here, and who also have children. What better way to get the next generation to learn about competition shooting than by getting your children involved in the local high school JROTC rifle club?

Also, one of the challenges I face is trying to convince lawyers who may be passionately against firearms of why they need to know the "nuts and bolts" of firearm transfers. Competition in general, and olympic disciplines in particular are a good way to present firearms in a neutral manner, instead of the constant negativity that floods the news media.

Thought I'd share my thoughts from after a local who no longer shoots smallbore except with a SCATT system at home contacted me privately lamenting the lack of local clubs that support smallbore and another person privately commented that shooting clubs are on a shoe-string budget with shooters unwilling to devote the money golfers do to their club memberships and facilities.

The second person also commented that I'd be better off putting $6k aside to buy whatever I wanted for 3p shooting. And that to shoot prone I absolutely needed a jacket and sling.

Here was my response:

Right now I'm only shooting prone. But I'll be trying kneeling and standing to earn the RTS program badges in those disciplines. In the RTS program there is no need for jackets or slings.

There might be one person in the club that takes everything so seriously as to have all of the 3p equipment and a $2-3k rifle.

Yes, if I set aside $6000 I'd be free to chose any top end rifle and optics system I wanted. But I don't see why it's necessary to aim for the high end and get fully equipped if all I'm doing is shooting to improve my skill for my own pleasure.

That being said, I do have my mind kind of set of getting a Matchguns MG2 for pistol shooting.

And on the club shoe-string budget comment, yes shooting is quite an unknown sport. But IMO that's an issue of community outreach and marketing. I'm starting to bug the executive at my club about the fact that the only outreach and advertising is at the regular gun shows. Preaching to the converted won't do anything to bring down the rather fossilised average age of the club. But then again, with the limited space I think they're not really that bothered with the level of new member intake.

Another nearby club charges a fortune per year in comparison (450-650/yr). Perhaps not golf-club prices, but they make money on consumables and don't have the social facilities a golf-club does. Their focus is large centerfire pistol and IPSC. IMO shooting federations should be making an effort to promote a smallbore morning or evening once a month there and promote smallbore competitions. Because as it is it's impossible to shoot smallbore targets (or any calibre really) due to the "my gun is bigger than yours" macho-ism and the impossibility of concentrating shot to shot as the yahoos around you empty their 45's as fast as possible.

The Canadian shooting federation doesn't seem to have much visibility even in the firearms community. The provincial FQT doesn't have any visibility as far as I can tell outside the gun community either. The one 10m airgun range they have won't do much to promote province wide competition.

The insular paranoid nature of gun owners and organisations doesn't help the cause either. Need real leadership that will promote to positives of the sports to the public at large and cooperate for reasonable ownership and training requirements and regulations. Not groups that are forever fighting any and all outsiders.

And I realise that I perpetuated something that I know shouldn't be done. If someone enjoys shooting big calibre weapons as fast of possible, good for them. I shouldn't have called them yahoos.

I think the biggest problem I'm seeing as a brand new shooter that's holding back shooting is lack of communication and a lack of cooperation. If the sport can't work effectively with the strengths of different people within the sport, how can the sport expect to work at encouraging the public to take it up?

SlartyBartFast wrote:The insular paranoid nature of gun owners and organisations doesn't help the cause either. Need real leadership that will promote to positives of the sports to the public at large and cooperate for reasonable ownership and training requirements and regulations. Not groups that are forever fighting any and all outsiders.....
I think the biggest problem I'm seeing as a brand new shooter that's holding back shooting is lack of communication and a lack of cooperation. If the sport can't work effectively with the strengths of different people within the sport, how can the sport expect to work at encouraging the public to take it up?

I think the above is really important to remember when promoting shooting, doubly so in the U.S. Here, we are constantly inundated with negative images of gun violence on the news media. It is used as a political football. The stereotypical shooter in America owns as many firearms as he can possibly horde, lives in the middle of nowhere, hates the government, and is generally presented as a danger to the community. This stereotype needs to be countered.

I believe that the extremist approach by some gun organizations has done much more harm than good to the reputation of gun owners. The sport aspect is one of the few areas left that is "untainted" by this association. Shooting sports by their very nature subject competitors to rules that emphasize safety and careful handling. Even pointing an unloaded gun in the wrong direction (or even the right direction at the wrong angle) in a conventional 2700 or an ISSF discipline will get you disqualified. The public needs to be educated about this. Sure, there are mass shootings every year here in the U.S. There are also thousands of competitions throughout the country that are handled safely.

I believe that it is time to stop "fighting" gun regulation so hard (that's not to say that fighting regulations is wrong. It's needed at times. Some people in my profession make their living doing just that. But we've gone too far in the public's view.) and instead demonstrate that firearms competition is a safe and respectable sport.

Want to shoot big guns? Enter silhouette shooting. Do you prefer being able to shoot the head off of a pin? Air Rifle might be your thing. Do you prefer the thrill of paramilitary "First Person Shooter" excitement? IPSC might be just the thing for you. What about wild west reenactments? Try cowboy action shooting. Want something convenient that you can shoot in your own basement? Try air pistol or rifle.

The tools are there. The interest is there. The publicity is not. This must change! When reading an Olympic Pistol book originally made in German, I was struck by how little attention was paid to North America by the international shooting community. The big players were European and Asian. We really need to step it up and prove that we have what it takes to compete on an international level, and force other countries to pay attention to what our athletes are doing!

As I continue to speak about firearms in estate planning to the legal community, I fully plan to emphasize these aspects and continue to promote shooting sports. This is my contribution. I challenge each of you to find your own way to contribute.

Chia wrote:As I continue to speak about firearms in estate planning to the legal community, I fully plan to emphasize these aspects and continue to promote shooting sports. This is my contribution. I challenge each of you to find your own way to contribute.

Personally, I think I'll create a display for at my workplace to promote the club I'm in. Two other people I discuss shooting with are of the paranoid type. Mustn't let the wrong people find out you shoot for a hobby.

But if we don't talk about it with the public at large how will we ever gain acceptance and grow?

So during the "Salon des Passions" this coming winter, I'll put up a few of my targets and see if I can find some ISSF shooting posters to put up.

An idea I had: approach a golf club for space for a 10M air pistol and rifle range. Many clubhouses have the space somewhere. And many of the golfers might be looking for something to do during the winter months. A portable or at least mobile set up could make a meeting room or banquet hall into a good club range that would still be useable for other activities.

Need ideas that will gain the support of and exposure to non-shooting groups.

We should allow spectator make noise than this sport will back popular. Like archery. Adding house music will boost audience like this sport.

django wrote:We should allow spectator make noise than this sport will back popular. Like archery. Adding house music will boost audience like this sport.

I've started adding music to my juniors practices. Sometimes just rock, sometimes annoying music from Dr Demento. Issf has a new rule the music must be played at matches. Might as well prepare the next generation of athletes to become accustomed to the music.

We also have guts matches to do our best to get in their heads during practice.

They need to start playing "eye of the tiger" during finals. Cuz...you know, they're hitting something the size of the eye of the...


Nevermind...

Seriously, who goes to a precision pistol event for audience entertainment? It is most definitely a boring sport to watch.

The official play list.

Chia wrote:...Seriously, who goes to a precision pistol event for audience entertainment? It is most definitely a boring sport to watch...

If it is a handful of shooters with a widely diverse skill level, I agree.
A World Cup or Olympics is altogether a different thing.

After all, if they can sell golf to TV audiences, anything is possible.

David Levene wrote:The official play list.

What an oddly diverse collection of music. Almost like it was decided by committee.

The lack of David Bowie is disturbing.
I'll fix that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hDbpF4Mvkw

Spencer wrote:After all, if they can sell golf to TV audiences, anything is possible.

Spencer, you've hit the nail on the head. It is much a marketing/presentation issue, as much as anything else. Plus you have to pay royalties when you play peoples music publically.
I think the music is better than a rather cynical type of clapping that started to emerge circa 2014. It was especially bad at the Glasgow games; the Indian team were using it not in the spirit of sport in my view - I digress.

How we present this sport will likely determine the future of the sport.

Music will not solve an inherently unspectacular process. Good graphics, screens, visualisations, commentry will.
It is as much a journey, and creating a narrative. Humans have been telling stories ever since we came out of the trees. Most of the ISSF commentry is ghastly.

Or, appropriate to the elimination final format, Queen... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIMGAH-FBIU

This particular version is... Ummm... shooting related...

SamEEE wrote: I think the music is better than a rather cynical type of clapping that started to emerge circa 2014. It was especially bad at the Glasgow games; the Indian team were using it not in the spirit of sport in my view

I was at every pistol final, and several rifle ones, and saw/heard no evidence of this.

SamEEE wrote:

Spencer wrote:After all, if they can sell golf to TV audiences, anything is possible.

Spencer, you've hit the nail on the head. It is much a marketing/presentation issue, as much as anything else. Plus you have to pay royalties when you play peoples music publically.
I think the music is better than a rather cynical type of clapping that started to emerge circa 2014. It was especially bad at the Glasgow games; the Indian team were using it not in the spirit of sport in my view - I digress.

How we present this sport will likely determine the future of the sport.

Maybe we can do the 60 shots up front and have the final round be shown a single round at a time, like how golfers only go one at a time? Give the audience more to ooh and ahh over.

Hell, it'd be better than music that is marginally better than Hasselhof.

Chia wrote:Maybe we can do the 60 shots up front and have the final round be shown a single round at a time, like how golfers only go one at a time? Give the audience more to ooh and ahh over.

That's one of the reasons why the Shotgun and Rapid Fire Pistol finals are the most televisual.

There's only one person shooting at a time, so the camera can concentrate on them.

David Levene wrote:

Chia wrote:Maybe we can do the 60 shots up front and have the final round be shown a single round at a time, like how golfers only go one at a time? Give the audience more to ooh and ahh over.

That's one of the reasons why the Shotgun and Rapid Fire Pistol finals are the most televisual.

There's only one person shooting at a time, so the camera can concentrate on them.

Or this:
Seed the shooters according to their 60-shot finish position. Then have head-to-head elimination matches pitting the highest against the lowest competitor. That keeps the element of competition front and center without the distraction of multiple shooters all on at the same time. It will take 7 10-shot matches to determine the champion from 8 finalists.

william wrote:Or this:
Seed the shooters according to their 60-shot finish position. Then have head-to-head elimination matches pitting the highest against the lowest competitor. That keeps the element of competition front and center without the distraction of multiple shooters all on at the same time. It will take 7 10-shot matches to determine the champion from 8 finalists.

Well hot darn now we just need the people who make the decisions on this forum and we'll be set.

I like the idea of having the finalists shoot one at a time. Good opportunity for commentary.