TargetTalk

I wonder why Pardini Germany is so defiantly and stubbornly opposed to this very interesting project... a puzzling and not very businesslike attitude indeed. :-(

Alexander

Yes, all of our current SP and HP models have pre-cut with dove-tails grooves frames.

Alexander wrote:I wonder why Pardini Germany is so defiantly and stubbornly opposed to this very interesting project... a puzzling and not very businesslike attitude indeed. :-(

Alexander

Hi Alexander!
All of our projects are result of combined effort of all Pardini branches. I am sure that after we are done with the development and if there is interest and no restrictions by the local laws, all Pardini friends will be able to benefit. It just happened that some things are easier in the States. I wish we had the ability to have shooting clubs in every school as you do in Germany :) But "shooting" is a bad word here in the States, even if we are talking for Olympic sport :(
Have a great day!

Vladimir

Not only Germany - I asked Pardini Italy about it, and they told me that they couldn't help me, I'd have to try and talk to Pardini USA if I wanted one... duh.

I'm a little surprised that none of the European manufacturers haven't just changed the barrel twist rate. They seem to have standardized on a 1-18 twist, which is known not to stabilize wadcutters beyond 25m. And it is well known that if a gun is accurate at long range, it is accurate at short range. Adjusting the twist to deliver accuracy at 50 yards/meters would seem to be a simple decision.

Yesterday's answer from the German Pardini representative was the polite and professional form of a "DUH". Or, for the older "MAD" readers among us, Alfred E. Neuman's "What - me worry?"

But just sending enough emailed inquiries to Germany and Italy might eventually teach them sometimes, beyond the usual "a customer is threatening to ORDER - what shall we do now?!" scare.

*Sigh*

Alexander

PardiniUSA wrote:Yes, all of our current SP and HP models have pre-cut with dove-tails grooves frames.

Are special rings required, or are the grooves compatible with standard weaver style rings? Will something with a built-in weaver mount like the Aimpoint H-1 work properly?

I have suggested this to Match Guns(HP 32 cal) as far back as 3/4 years ago and I don't think they changed the twist yet. I am sure the Europeans realize that their 32 S&W target pistols shoot more accurate at 50 yards with a faster twist (like 1:10) and since they they do sell to the USA market-one would think that they would change the twist by now. At the very least it would be a good selling point for NRA type shooting.

cgroppi wrote:

PardiniUSA wrote:Yes, all of our current SP and HP models have pre-cut with dove-tails grooves frames.

Are special rings required, or are the grooves compatible with standard weaver style rings? Will something with a built-in weaver mount like the Aimpoint H-1 work properly?

The short answer is, "maybe."

The milled groove in the Pardini top is a standard Weaver width, but requires a rather sharp edge on the rings to "bite" into the groove. Some manufacturers seem to work well out of the box (Weaver Top Mount, standard), while some have a more rounded leading edge and do not (Ultradot factory).

In either case, a few minutes with a file to clean up and sharpen any rounded edge angles of the mounting rings is all that is really needed, even with an Aimpoint micro and the built in base.

Larry Carter used to sell factory Ultradot rings that had been ground and tapered for this purpose, not sure if he has any left.

Hope that helped,
Keith

Mike M. wrote:I'm a little surprised that none of the European manufacturers haven't just changed the barrel twist rate. They seem to have standardized on a 1-18 twist, which is known not to stabilize wadcutters beyond 25m. And it is well known that if a gun is accurate at long range, it is accurate at short range. Adjusting the twist to deliver accuracy at 50 yards/meters would seem to be a simple decision.

There is no incentive for them too. There is no world wide market for a 32 barrel that will shoot at 50 yards. All international shooting for center fire is done at the 25 meter line. Even if you put a barrel on them with a twist rate that makes it accurate at 50, there are other factors such as wind that keep the 32 from being a good gun for bullseye, and free pistol is fired with a specialized .22 caliber gun, so again, no market. Want to shoot a 32 or 38 at the 50 yard line? Get Dave Wilson to make you a barrel.

At An Arnold Mo. 2700, I watched several shooters using the 32 S&W ( the original cartridge ) at 25yds. Worked great and less noise than .22s. I believe the guns were Pardinees. Local smith made the barrells out of a 308 enfield barrell

K5Tangos wrote:Some manufacturers seem to work well out of the box ... while some ... do not ...

I've been down this rabbit hole in several contexts. 11mm or 3/8", 45 degree or 60 degree cut, whatever words the manufacturer uses to describe them just don't matter. There simply is no meaningful standardization of groove dimensions for mounting rings. I have a Hammerli that requires knife-edge rings. Even sharp-edged rings from American manufacturers that advertise both 11mm and 3/8" compatibility simply don't fit because they usually won't close down far enough to bite.

I advise people to buy combinations they've seen others use successfully unless they just like buying lots of parts that will wind up in the spares chest.

Actually Dan, the guns are Benelli 90's. The barrel is a PacNor 303 British match blank. Three of us bought the rifle barrel and made them into 6 inch S&W long barrels and later made another piece into a S&W short. Experiments like this take a lot of study before any solid statements can be made but at this time the S&W short gun is working OK but we are hesitant to say whether it is better than the long. At this time, the guy with this pistol is questioning whether the brass is ejecting off the ejector or hitting the next round because the last round doesn’t always eject. Otherwise the gun is reliable, but it was in that gun with the 32 S&W long barrel also. Even 50 yard loads are good in two out of three of the guns but the third is causing problems with alibis and isn’t accurate. The interesting thing about this is that the one that isn’t accurate now is the one that was the most accurate with the original barrel. We are currently involved in changing reloads back and forth to find out what the deal is. With my original barrel, I had no problem getting 2 inch 10 shot accuracy with Lapua brass and a load of surplus powder making the bullet go about 630. I used a .002 oversize sizing die, .314 expander and either Saeco 98 grain hornady lubed, molded bullets, or H&N .314 HBWC. They hit to the same place and the accuracy differential was insignificant but they had to be trimmed brass and crimped with a roll crimp or they weren’t accurate. Fast forward to the other barrel and a roll crimp is awful and with a taper crimp all kinds of loads are better but are in the 4 to 5 inch range. I have shot some of my friend’s loads which are 1.5 of #2 with the same Saeco bullet and 14 (all we had at the time) shots went into about 2 ¼ inches. The differences were a different sizing die, RP brass, .310 expander, taper crimp, and Saeco lube. I only shot those few and didn’t have any alibis but need to shoot more to really prove anything. I have shot my own loads that were supposed to duplicate what he did but the differences was that I still had were the RP brass and the different brand sizing die but I did go back to a standard die with this barrel. The third gun is used with the same load and H&N bullets and it is reliable and accurate to around 2 inches 50 yard 10 shot. The differences are that he uses Star dies and a Star expander and I don’t know what size the expander is. All of this work is done with sandbags and pistol scopes.

Does anyone has info about the accuracy of the SIG Hammerli P 240 in .32 SW at 50 yds ?

Rodgunner wrote:Does anyone has info about the accuracy of the SIG Hammerli P 240 in .32 SW at 50 yds ?

I was on the line next to a guy shooting one in 2009. This one was a P 240 in 38. The rounds tumbled quite a bit and there were some odd shaped holes. Not very good groups either. Maybe ten points lower than what he shot with his 45 the next day.

I cant talk about the 32 acp pardini, but some time ago we did some tests with a mildly modified Walther PP in this caliber.
We were getting groups around one inch at 25 yards at one point.
I would say most of the improvements were because of the selected ammo.
Best results were had with H&N plastic coated, lead bullets and N310 powder I believe.
The pistol had a 1 in 16" twist barrel, improved sights, tuned trigger, crowned muzzle plus oversize plastic grips from an old PP Sport.

We never went beyond 25 meters, but if I remember correctly the only signs of instability were due to to ammo issues.

Initially ran into some OA length problems with the plastic coating catching on shorter lead, but that got sorted easily.
Once this was out of the way, we did not encounter ANY feed problems.

This was some time ago but distincly remember walking away with the feeling that the 32 ACP might have an advantage over 32 long WC, at least in feeding and perhaps in bullet stability.

Would I be interested in a modern 32 ACP for Conventional Pistol or ISSF Centrefire?......probably yes.

I have never seen a semi wadcutter in one of the pistols we played with tip but full wadcutters including hollow base wadcutters might tip even with a faster twist barrel that is smaller diameter. I never did slug the 303 barrel because I knew it was smaller than the stock barrel which is .314. The wadcutters are less likely to tip in the fast twist barrel but still will. Tipping of 38 wadcutters has been a problem ever since ever and it has always been blamed on twist but the same guns would shoot a semi wadcutter without tipping.